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Thread: Magics: Full Report

  1. #1
    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    Magics: Full Report

    PLEASE NOTE: this thread is no longer maintained, the new magic thread is run by Blues


    Edit#17: 3/18/2013
    Added ZES, KN, IL, TB & LS, and updated GID, CK&BB, and VotI
    Edit#18: 3/22/2013
    Updated rates of ID, GID, IL, and ZES


    First off, great kudos to the father-figure of figuring everything out, Rafael, and his comparative thread for LoTS, to Rhapsodii and all participants of the proc thread, Help My Name Got Censored for QM and being the first to figure out that magic damage is determined before damage range is applied, and AlonT, Blues, Oeffinger, and LanderZ for testing various magics.

    Quick and Dirty:
    Damage percent shown is the calculated average amount the magic will add per hit
    (!) means that the magic is situational: make sure that you understand when it works.
    Each name is a link that'll take you to its wiki page, with description and where to get it.
    This list shows per slot damage, so combo's full bonus is averaged by the number of magic slots it uses.

    Note that in the vast majority of cases magics in no way affect other's damages or proc ability. ONLY for magics that STATE a combo effect in their ability description is there any synergy between magics. Otherwise, all magics work independently, and can SIMULTANEOUSLY proc on a single hit (and combo effects can also proc simultaneously, e.g. Chriseis' Kiss and Briseis' Blessing or Harmony and Discord's upgraded procs can both happen on a single hit).

    Note that Eyes of the Walrus and Rythm and Melody are counterparts of Vengeance of the Immortal for their respective platforms, and I assume that they are identical to VotI.

    Non-Damage Magic Effects:
    Haste: 3.9% xp average per hit
    Quicken Mind: 5.8% xp average per hit
    Blazing Sun: Heals unknown
    and a bunch of others...

    Damage Magics:
    1. Leprechaun's Luck & Brough's Trick: 29.25% per slot (58.5% total) (Last 10% of timer only)
    2. Shadow Strike & Battousai: 26.6% per slot (53.1% total) (Only until 90% health)
    3. Leprechaun's Luck: 25.8% Last 10% of timer only
    4. Zoe's Eternal Slaughter: 24.84%
    5. Brough's Trick: 24% (Last 20% of timer only)
    6. Shadow Strike & Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre & Battousai: 23.0% per slot (69.1% total) (Only until 90% health)
    7. Battousai: 22.0% (Only until 90% health)
    8. Shadow Strike: 20.2% (Only until 80% health)
    9. Vengeance of the Immortal: 19.1%
    10. Shadow Strike & Devouring Darkness & Battousai: 19.1% per slot (57.4% total) (Only until 90% health)
    11. Shadow Strike & Devouring Darkness & Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre & Battousai: 18.4% per slot (73.4% total) (Only until 90% health)
    12. Shadow Strike & Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre: 18.1% per slot (36.2% total) (Only until 85% health)
    13. Shadow Strike & Devouring Darkness & Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre: 13.5% per slot (40.5% total) (Only until 85% health)
    14. Greater Impending Doom: 12.7%
    15. Shadow Strike & Devouring Darkness: 12.3% per slot (24.5% total) (Only until 80% health)
    16. Briseis' Blessing & Chriseis' Kiss: 12.1% per slot (24.1% total) (Dragons only)
    17. Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre: 11.9% (Only until 85% health)
    18. Insanity Laughs: 10.8%
    19. Impending Doom: 8.1%
    20. Terracles' Blessing & Lyria's Swiftness: 7.8% per slot (15.6% total) (Dragons only)
    21. Kyddin's Nexus: 7.5% with all 19 normal free magics, +.11% per PC magic/VotI/ZES owned(!)
    22. Lesser Impending Doom: 6.6%
    23. Melinda's Magekiller & Annus Mirabilis: 6.2% per slot (12.34% total)
    24. Melinda's Magekiller: 5.9%
    25. Khan's Gift: 5.3%
    26. Expose Weakness: 5.3%
    27. Terracles' Blessing: 5.2%
    28. Lyria's Swiftness: 5% (100% rate)
    29. Glimmering Moon & Blazing Sun & Fairy Fire: 5.0% per slot (15.1% total)
    30. Glimmering Moon & Blazing Sun & Sandstorm & Fairy Fire: 4.8% per slot (19.3% total)
    31. Glimmering Moon & Blazing Sun: 4.7% per slot (9.4% total)
    32. Glimmering Moon & Blazing Sun & Sandstorm: 4.5% per slot (13.6% total)
    33. Fairy Fire: 4.6%
    34. Annus Mirabilis: 4.4%
    35. Glimmering Moon & Fairy Fire: 4.4% per slot (8.8% total)
    36. Khan's Gift & Beastmaster: 4.3%+.025% per 100 mounts owned per slot(8.5%+.05% per 100 mounts owned total)
    37. Sandstorm: 3.9%
    38. Haste: 3.9% and extra from additional procs on bonus hit and 3.9% xp
    39. Discord & Harmony: 3.8% per slot (7.6% total)
    40. Discord: 3.6%
    41. Nela's Kiss: 3.2%,+1% per additional poison; per slot with additional poisons far less!
    42. Glimmering Moon: 3.1%
    43. Devouring Darkness: 3% and heals damage
    44. Burning Rain: 3% and causes damage (100% rate)
    45. Harmony: 2.9%
    46. Morituri Te Salutant: 2.3%
    47. Vampiric Aura: 2.1%
    48. Sandstorm & Blazing Sun: 2.1% per slot (4.2% total)
    49. Beastmaster: 2%+.05% per 100 mounts owned
    50. Reflection: 2.0%
    51. Greater Midas Touch: 1.7%
    52. Greater Poison: 1.3%
    53. Briseis' Blessing: <1%
    54. Chriseis' Kiss: <1%
    55. Harpy's Curse: 0.55%
    56. Poison: 0.48%
    57. Lesser Poison: 0.11%


    Looking for the specific data on how exactly it was calculated?
    Last edited by feathin; 19th April 2014 at 16:35.
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  2. #2
    Golden Garden Monk Cass's Avatar
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    really I dont care about magics to much anymore but this has taken a ton of work and dedication to figure so for that i give you a thanks and a +1. might be useful to lots of players and raids. So thanks for the info though it truely is good stuff.

  3. #3
    My guild was JUST discussing magics. What a timely post! I'm looking forward to the edits, thanks for all the work!

  4. #4
    Golden Garden Monk Vaibhav's Avatar
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    Very very good work feathin
    We are the Juggernaut, we are the fires of Hell and we are the De-rankers of doom. We are elite and we are strong. This is Infernum.


  5. #5
    DotD Council Member
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    BRILLIANT work! Much appreciated.

    I have always thought EW stopped working months ago, but never had a statistically significant data to back it up, or the will and effort to track it. Hope they fix it.

  6. #6
    Sister of Radiance Desimator's Avatar
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    This is a sterling piece of work. Props to you.

    The only thing I would suggest is either reordering the list to take into account the slots required or dividing the % boost but the number of slots in the combo.

    eg:
    10. Khan's Gift: +5.3%
    12. Fairy Fire: +4.6%
    Using only one slot each, are obviously more powerfull than
    8. Khan's Gift with Beastmaster upgrade: +6.5%
    9. Fairy Fire with Glimmering Moon upgrade: +5.7%
    which require two.

  7. #7
    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the appreciation!

    Quote Originally Posted by Desimator View Post
    The only thing I would suggest is either reordering the list to take into account the slots required or dividing the % boost but the number of slots in the combo.

    eg:
    10. Khan's Gift: +5.3%
    12. Fairy Fire: +4.6%
    Using only one slot each, are obviously more powerfull than
    8. Khan's Gift with Beastmaster upgrade: +6.5%
    9. Fairy Fire with Glimmering Moon upgrade: +5.7%
    which require two.
    Yeah I've tried to figure out the best way to do this. The main reason I haven't just divided by number of slots is because of all the multi-way magics (like SS/DD, SS/MMMM, SS/Batt; GM/BS/, GM/FF). LotS doesn't have multi-ways like that (yet) so Rafael can freely do it that way without confusion. If I listed single combo amounts like "GM+BS = 9.4% or 4.7% per slot" and "GM+FF = 8.8% or 4.4% per slot" I'd also have to list the 3-way combo or there'd be no way for people to figure out that "GM+BS+FF = 15.1% or 5% per slot". That's fairly simple...Although for Sandstorm you'd have to display Sand+BS, Sand +BS+GM, Sand+BS+GM+FF...And then there's SS and all its pile...

    I suppose I could do all permutations, or maybe just most complete ones, and wrap it in a click here section like the specs section. Or/And have a section with the best combination of magics, for each number of slots. Or people can just figure it out on their own by adding up things as they are currently displayed. Thoughts?

    Edit: One thing I definitely need to add as currently shown is an explanation that X "with" Y means it solely reflects X, and not Y's, input, and thus to determine how much you're getting you need to track down what Y would be doing and add it. Otherwise people could assume I'm showing the full combo %, which I was only planning to do with Harmony "and" Discord since they aren't multi-way. Oh and Brough's Trick & Leprechaun's Luck. The specs section would have the info on individual bonuses in those two combos.
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    Silver Arrow ErictheGrey's Avatar
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    Isn't Burning Rain a 100% proc magic that does 3% of the hit's damage?

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    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErictheGrey View Post
    Isn't Burning Rain a 100% proc magic that does 3% of the hit's damage?
    Yes, it is. That's why I have it there as 3%. What's shown is the average damage per hit, so rate times damage. 100%*3%=3%.

    Although its not quite 3% of the hit's damage, it is 3% of your average damage (so every single proc BR adds the exact same amount (until your stats/gear/legion change)). Magic is funky like that. Note the formula at the beginning of the Specs section.
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  10. #10
    Silver Arrow Warren Wright's Avatar
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    nice work wow

  11. #11
    Silver Arrow Warren Wright's Avatar
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    im just wondering if anyone eles if tired of seeing harmony discord its on everything

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    World Mender
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Wright View Post
    im just wondering if anyone eles if tired of seeing harmony discord its on everything
    Harmony+Discord is sexy....seeing 3 different incomplete combos, poison, GMT, MTS, HC, and VA are what kill me lol

    Edit: Oh, and let's not forget the spells that only work on enemies above a certain per cent health when they're below said amount.
    Last edited by GriffonSpade; 27th October 2011 at 02:55.

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    Sister of Radiance AlonT's Avatar
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    Fantastic work!!
    I'll save you the hassle on NK and the poisons as I calculated them just a few days ago:
    LP: +1.75% dam at 6% proc: .11% increase.
    P: +4% dam at 12% proc: .48% increase.
    GP: +6.5% dam at 20% proc: 1.3% increase.
    These figures are not exact, but considering these are sucky magics I didn't want to invest a few more thousands of stamina just to improve the data by 0.2%.

    NK: +25% dam at 12% proc: 3% increase. +10% dam for each poison cast.
    This makes the NK combo useless as the damage increase per slot actually decreases the more poisons you add, because the poison damage itself is so weak.

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    Sister of Radiance Dalamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriffonSpade View Post
    Harmony+Discord is sexy....seeing 3 different incomplete combos, poison, GMT, MTS, HC, and VA are what kill me lol

    Edit: Oh, and let's not forget the spells that only work on enemies above a certain per cent health when they're below said amount.

    LOL - Well, according to the amount of closed threads by Moderators, Harmony is sexier than Discord


    On a more serious note, H & D were free, therefore almost everyone has them. that would explain their predominant presence. and so long as raiders understand that:
    a) A combo of magic is better than its stand alone version (better than the sum of its parts)
    b) Some combinations are better than others (it was self-evident that moon -ff was more powerful than sun - sandstorm before the maths herein)
    c) there are single buffs more powerful than combos

    and that these raiders choose magics accordingly, then alle ist gut.
    "I know you've a big mouth but, really, both feet?"



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    World Mender DarkAngel's Avatar
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    if you need to do some tests on VOI, send me any raid and I'll put this for you.

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    Sister of Radiance AlonT's Avatar
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    Another way to look at the data - damage increase per slot:

    Batt + SS 26.05%
    Brough's Trick 24.00%
    M4 + SS + Batt 22.70%
    Batt 21.90%
    Shadow Strike 20.20%
    M4 + SS 18.10%
    M4 11.90%
    GID 10.40%
    KG 5.30%
    FF 4.60%
    AM 4.40%
    FF + Moon 4.40%
    KG + BM 4.38%
    Moon + Sun + Sand + FF 4.05%
    FF + Moon + Sun 4.00%
    ID 3.90%
    Sand 3.90%
    Disc + Harm 3.80%
    Haste 3.80%
    Disc 3.60%
    Moon + Sun + Sand 3.50%
    Moon + Sun 3.15%
    Moon 3.10%
    DD 3.00%
    BM 2.25%
    Sand + Sun 2.10%

  17. #17
    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlonT View Post
    Another way to look at the data - damage increase per slot
    Yeah I was planning on making a click-me to show it that way. Probably will do it in my next update. I've got everything complete and fairly reliable now, just lack LL with BT which I'll be doing on Friday.

    Everyone take note of the Impending Dooms (all 3). Feel free to try to prove me wrong...but please use only current data, and please save all your data so it can be examined. Click in the box showing all your hits, hit ctrl-a to select all, ctrl-c to copy it all, and paste it into a document. I then modify that so my spreadsheets automatically detract all procs and critical damage and inspect all my hits for stuff within whatever damage range I want, so my data is very accurate. If you have a pile of data you want me to run through my spreadsheets I can do that for you (or provide you with my prototype and how to use it). It also automatically counts all equipment/general procs I specify btw.
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  18. #18
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    Wow, well done with this post. It's been really helpful. Just one question though. Does MMMM + SS + battousai still work when the boss health is below? Cause while I was hitting the Echthros raid, I could swear the magics still worked although the boss health was around 82%, since I was hitting around 1.3-2m rather regularly. Unless my luck was so good that GID activated that many times.

  19. #19
    Farmhand Sarael Penguin's Avatar
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    I'm glad this game has such a good community base. Thanks for this information feathin!
    You're higher level, I'm cooler. I'd say I win this one.

  20. #20
    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_wong View Post
    Wow, well done with this post. It's been really helpful. Just one question though. Does MMMM + SS + battousai still work when the boss health is below? Cause while I was hitting the Echthros raid, I could swear the magics still worked although the boss health was around 82%, since I was hitting around 1.3-2m rather regularly. Unless my luck was so good that GID activated that many times.
    SS itself works until 80%, adding 200% dmg at a 10% rate, but MMMM and Battousai shouldn't be doing anything at that point (though I haven't tested to make sure everything stays in its range). 1.3 to 2 mil would require regular hits of 433k to 666k, though of course any proc damage should be subtracted first.
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