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Thread: Patch Notes: July 13th, 2018

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanderZ View Post
    This right here.

    At current, there is no mechanic to decide/alter what resource is drawn upon for Questing; it is automatically assumed to be Energy.

    So, notwithstanding the basic premise of *how* you would switch it (so, if it's a button, where does it go?), you'd potentially have to consider things such as changing the costs, rewards, and/or chances of things.

    Needless to say, as this tech is not currently in the game, it would be much harder to add than, say, something simpler, by virtue of Simple-is-easier-than-Complex.

    Really, in the next released zone, just make 1 segment completely topsy-turvy and use Stamina. That way, since we get AP from any segment now, players could spend S or E to get AP on that zone, with a lot less potential coding concerns (as you could alter the costs to be fixed at a lower rate for Stamina, for instance).
    if you can change it from energy to stamina, the very same lines of code you are suggesting to change for that being made if-then statements would handle the either or case. if it is exactly one line of code to handle "paying" for the quest click, unless the devs are poor coders it should be, or several it still is those exact places you make the exact same changes to with if-then or switch statments. granted could see them doing a pure stamina only first, but it would be trivial extra effort to make a stamina only quest click as it would be for it to be stamina or energy clicks as doing the stamina only version would identify all the places they would have to change for the stamina/energy ones.

    really the only hard part would be deciding the "payment" ratios for stamina and energy and where to physically place the resource toggle (don't even have to design it, just place it the back end toggle code is already there). and oddly the "payment" ratios have to be worked out for either a stamina only or a stamina/energy quest, so that work is the same for either case.

    and note prior to the first multi-resource WR, the "tech did not exist" to do that with raids either, but there is nothing to indicate that it was a world altering amount of effort to *create* the tech then that could be *reused* here.. it still remains no different to changing the "cost" and "payment" for a click from a quest area than it did for making the same changes for a raid. the back end "paying" for a click is simple at code level, unless the code is really designed by begininer programmers or something equally hard to believe. "paying" for a click is just a simple reduction in one resource bar, we already know that even if we don't know the exactly line of code that does it. some later procs may alter the payment, but the paying is that simple if the code is remotely well designed. altering the payment *type* is just going to require altering the lines of code that do the resource reduction, nothing more.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    Snowstar...

    Your post makes so many unfounded assumptions it is beyond ridiculous and makes any attempt to respond in a meaningful way impossible.

    Just because you believe it is one line of code along the lines of energy = energy - x doesn't mean you are correct. It also ignores a whole plethora of validation checks that need to be done.

    And to top all of that off, even if you were a Software Engineer with a 4 year Bachelor's degree you STILL wouldn't be able to make any of those assertions with any amount of certainty since you haven't ever seen the code base that 5PG is working from. Without that info, all you have is a bunch of meaningless assertions on your part.

    What we think "should" be the way it is handled does not necessarily have even a passing relationship with how it is actually handled in the code!

    for one, I said a line of code *LIKE* energy=energy-X. the exact code has no reason to be more complex than that as we know that is the *effect* of a quest click. granted the code might be written upside down for silly reason and do it with more than one line of code, but there *IS* a code segment that handles "paying" for a quest click. switching it with an IF-THEN case statement combined with a simple energy/stamina toggle flag takes care of the back end "paying" for the quest click. this is true if it is the logical case of it being a single line to "pay" for the click or if it is some multi-line section of code that handles the "payment". first section of the IF-THEN be the existing code segment for payment, second section be the same code segment for payment with energy replaced by stamina. the IF-THEN controlled by the existing toggle icon and code that already exists for raids.




    honestly if the net cost of a click is energy reduced by say 225, why would the code be anything other than energy=energy -225? you can make it more complicated by why?

    if really want to get into it, there is likely a quest payment function that is handed the cost of the quest click and that function is just called. but then I assume the code is not writen by first year programmers sometimes....



    but in any event, what ever section of code does the payment, it only needs an IF-THEN around it and to be copies and energy edited to stamina. the number of lines of code involved doesn't change that. nor would even the number of places those lines of code get processed, though can't see why the quest payment code section could require more than one processing. yeah, maybe it deducts one energy X times instead of X energy once, is possible, but why? still even if it did, a simple of change of energy to stamina and an IF-THEN statement handles the back end payment switch.




    simplify, there is a code segment that handles the quest click *payment* correct? this is implicitly true. it currently only accepts payment as energy, again implicitly true. can that code segment be identified? 99% certain the devs that work on the code can even if someone outside of their office might have issues. does that code segment currently reduce energy? again implicty true. do we now if a click can be toggled to accept different forms of payment? again implicity true as we know it works with raids already. can you think of any reason that toggle would not work on a quest screen? since it nothing more than a toggle between energy/stamina/honor (assume since the first case of this was actually a WR that it silently carries the possibility of all three even when only allowing 2) anywhere it is placed it should work.

    all of that doesn't matter one bit what that code segment looks like. only that it can be identified by people that work with the code on a daily basis.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    And to top all of that off, even if you were a Software Engineer with a 4 year Bachelor's degree you STILL wouldn't be able to make any of those assertions with any amount of certainty since you haven't ever seen the code base that 5PG is working from. Without that info, all you have is a bunch of meaningless assertions on your part.
    I know! They use MSPaint! I cracked the code!

    Or they use actual hamsters. That would explain some of their decisions...

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    To sum it all up, making a stamina quest zone is as easier code wise, if not even easier than making the first energy raid. The only problem would be "art and lore"

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    Quote Originally Posted by haidao0923 View Post
    To sum it all up, making a stamina quest zone is as easier code wise, if not even easier than making the first energy raid. The only problem would be "art and lore"
    Which came first? Tisi or Serp? I still don't know...

    To be fair, I feel making a raid use Energy is easier code wise than Stamina 'quest' zone.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordRaven View Post
    Which came first? Tisi or Serp? I still don't know...

    To be fair, I feel making a raid use Energy is easier code wise than Stamina 'quest' zone.
    tisi came first. both versions of tisi actually.

    but why would changing the words stamina to energy be harder than changing energy to stamina?????? they had to do nerfing factors with allowing energy in raids, so any needed adjustment factors on the questing side would be no different effort wise. what makes you think the questing code process the per click "payment" fundamentally different than the raiding side process the per click "payment". note not talking about the processing of the damage, but the payment of the resources.

    [of course in reality they did the 3 way resource usage on WRs before any of the energy/stamina raids, so the code was made for that first. it is highly likely the energy/stamina raids are using a 3 state flag that just silently ignores honor as an option]

    there is really no reason to assume the "payment" process itself is different other than the word energy or stamina in the name of the variable they are deducting the payment from between raiding and questing in their original designs.

  7. #87
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    I'm done here. I get enough of this at work already.

    I really shouldn't be surprised I guess. The claims being made here have about as much basis in reality as some of the requests we get at work.

    I'll just leave it with, just because something is easy to describe does NOT mean it therefore must be easy to code!

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    So, notwithstanding the basic premise of *how* you would switch it (so, if it's a button, where does it go?), you'd potentially have to consider things such as changing the costs, rewards, and/or chances of things. (...) Really, in the next released zone, just make 1 segment completely topsy-turvy and use Stamina.
    well, isn't that obvious? there would be a switch, big shiny button, somehere near the stealth one, changin it's colour from green to orange :)

    and i don't need to know anything about coding, to realize simple fact - to make stam zone, devs would have to create new coding construct. (whether it would be by changing a few signs, or many lines)
    the same construct can be used with already existing graphics and lore - there would simply two zones at the same page - ene one and stam one, each with different numbers. instesd of changing area as we do now, we would use switch button to alternate between ene and stam version.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post


    I'm done here. I get enough of this at work already.

    I really shouldn't be surprised I guess. The claims being made here have about as much basis in reality as some of the requests we get at work.

    I'll just leave it with, just because something is easy to describe does NOT mean it therefore must be easy to code!


    Coding is not as complicated as you think.

    Tbh coding is simply learning from past coders.

    As a result, the coding process is a simple copy and paste since this is not a new idea but rather build upon existing ones

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by haidao0923 View Post
    Coding is not as complicated as you think.

    Tbh coding is simply learning from past coders.

    As a result, the coding process is a simple copy and paste since this is not a new idea but rather build upon existing ones
    I am a coder. This is what I do for a living. Day in and day out, 5 days a week, all year long. This is my job. So believe me when I tell you, I know what the **** I'm talking about in this area.

    Coding CAN be as simple as you say. SOME projects are more or less cut and paste with a few modifications. But without seeing the code there's absolutely ZERO justification for asserting that this project would be one of those simple to implement ones.

    Let me give you a real example from my personal experience...

    I work for a retail chain. Like everyone else, we run promotions. Things like, buy one get one free or buy this item and we'll pay the sales tax. Years ago we got a request to allow items to get multiple discounts if there were multiple promotions running at the same time. Simple, right? We already have all the code implemented, right? Just keep looking for more promotions and apply them instead of stopping after finding the first, right? Simple.

    Except it was anything but. It took months to implement because the entire architecture was built around tracking a single discount and there was nothing in place to allow for a second on the same item. It took a complete overhaul of the entire code base surrounding promotions to allow it.

    Just because something looks simple to us on the outside does NOT mean it is simple to implement in the actual code. It might be just as simple as it looks, or there could be something about the existing architecture which is completely incompatible and which WE will never know about because WE will never see the code to find out.
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  11. #91
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    wow nice, have you try interviewing for a job, you are a very dedicated person

  12. #92
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    I have a job already, thank you.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by haidao0923 View Post
    Coding is not as complicated as you think.

    Tbh coding is simply learning from past coders.

    As a result, the coding process is a simple copy and paste since this is not a new idea but rather build upon existing ones
    As a professional developer for a couple of decades now that takes new things for my business and writes the complete driver and interface code from scratch to run said things you are sorely mistaken in your perception of what "coding" is.

    If "coding" is not as difficult as you think why isn't everyone a software developer? There's a ton more that goes with the job of software development than just writing code.

  14. #94
    DotD Council Member LanderZ's Avatar
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    Well, the first rule of Dunning-Kruger club remains that you don't know you're in the Dunning-Kruger club...

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