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Thread: State of the Game: August 2017

  1. #41
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    AHH! A thought today: add a community tiers chart. This way, hitting the guild raid helps all guild members. The current community loot mechanics should work relatively well--after all, you don't get loot unless you hit the raid--so it's not like it can be exploited. The guild works together as a team to hit some goal, which adds to player-guild investment, and the payout is evenly distributed to everyone. This benefits all members in a guild.

  2. #42
    Sargaash the Mighty equal Ahlyis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Than View Post
    AHH! A thought today: add a community tiers chart. This way, hitting the guild raid helps all guild members. The current community loot mechanics should work relatively well--after all, you don't get loot unless you hit the raid--so it's not like it can be exploited. The guild works together as a team to hit some goal, which adds to player-guild investment, and the payout is evenly distributed to everyone. This benefits all members in a guild.
    I do think that CL tiers should be designed differently for Guild WRs though. Normal CL top tier typically requires several thousand people hitting max tier for the community portion to be reached. These Guild WRs should only require 10 players at max to reach the top community tier. That way, smaller guilds can still get there with one or two players hitting well beyond max without absolutely crippling them by making it 50 or a full 100 players at max needed.
    Azure Bonds on NAG has risen from the dead! We are now a level 10 guild with full guild shop access. Come join us!

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Than View Post
    I think it's worth knowing what the purpose of the raid is. I mean, if it's just a quick way to dispose of honor, and not supposed to do anything else--then it certainly serves that purpose. It gives virtually zero rewards, and if you have the patience to hit it roughly 23 times, you'll get the crafts needed for two items. It drops virtually zero guild coins, stat bags, or stat points. Outside of those two items, it serves no purpose to hit except to expend honor rapidly. If that was the objective, then the conversation is over.
    We have been asking for a way to get rid of honor with out having to keep summoning guild raids or destroying camps.
    They gave us Vathik which as you said it serves this purpose well.
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.

    The Immortal Insurgi, 16th Drake Slayer, 12th Demigod. Insurgi's (AP, FS, OS, Max) Raid Damage Table

  4. #44
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    Vathik: Feedback Wanted!



    • How do you feel about the raidís overall length? Length is fine.
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots? 1 or 2 more would be lovely! As others mention DM and guild magics don't have room with non-guild magics being better.
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less? I'm fine with current.
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them? not sure how many tiers there are yet but a 2-5Q MT would be nice.
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? no - At 70t for 77k sp is way too low. In comparison, hitting a deadly drak for 14 x times less the damage not only gives you ap but 163k more sp.
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough? One is enough.
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor? Yes.

  5. #45
    Spell Slinger Michaek's Avatar
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    Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? no - At 70t for 77k sp is way too low. In comparison, hitting a deadly drak for 14 x times less the damage not only gives you ap but 163k more sp.
    [/QUOTE]

    Again just highlighting the "apples and oranges" here - hitting a Deadly Drak using honour will get you zero SP For those bemoaning the relatively low SP return when compared to the deadlys, elites, etc you're missing the point. Yes you could chain devourers but that would like be a guild exercise or you would see the sp return drop significantly, yes you could do 5k Cels - but it would take an age. Swings and Roundabouts - it fills a gap. We have a dump without peeing off the rest of the guild by soloing camps etc.

    Also +1 for Than's first post - one I really enjoyed - thank you.

  6. #46
    World Mender Plundarr's Avatar
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    The only thing I would like to change in the new guild raid is the top tier. I would like to see a higher tier. 1q maybe? I'm not asking for it to be super rewarding. I have no issues with the loot as it is.
    Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!


  7. #47
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    • How do you feel about the raid’s overall length? It's a little too long, 5 days is a long time.. Current rate it will take 2 and a half months to get the magic and 1 month to get the neck.
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots? yes
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less? Race tags are fine
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them? Tiers are fine since we has so little honor compared to energy and stanima.
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? no, stats are an issue in everything since deadlies were released, even crafting sp seems unrewarding.. (6 of those red shadow fragments for 2 sp for instance)
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough? at the moment, this is sufficient. it allows me to dump honor while waiting on guild members to hit campaign nodes
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor? yes

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaek View Post
    Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? no - At 70t for 77k sp is way too low. In comparison, hitting a deadly drak for 14 x times less the damage not only gives you ap but 163k more sp.


    Again just highlighting the "apples and oranges" here - hitting a Deadly Drak using honour will get you zero SP For those bemoaning the relatively low SP return when compared to the deadlys, elites, etc you're missing the point. Yes you could chain devourers but that would like be a guild exercise or you would see the sp return drop significantly, yes you could do 5k Cels - but it would take an age. Swings and Roundabouts - it fills a gap. We have a dump without peeing off the rest of the guild by soloing camps etc.

    Also +1 for Than's first post - one I really enjoyed - thank you.
    Not really the point.. sp should be somewhat based on the dmg dealt to the raid, and since honor is much less the stamina or energy, it is harder to hit those tiers on a honor raid. While i don't think it should be say 500k sp, it should still be around 150-200k at 70t.

  9. #49
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    Still no mention about lower health raids dying too fast. No wonder this game is dying. Just adding new things instead of doing quality of life fixes.

    Forgot to mention Doppelganger is still broken too. AP doesn't go to 5k like all the other raids.

  10. #50
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    • ow do you feel about the raidís overall length? 4 days is too long; should be 1day
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots? Number is fine.
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less? Races are fine.
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them? Would like to see more drops at current higher tiers. It is set up to just do 1t and then wait for days for timer to expire. Rinse, repeat for 1 month+ for each craft.
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? No. Stat output is more an insult than worthwhile.
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough? Given the contraints, we need more.
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor? No, as timer lasts 4days and it doesn't make sense to do more than 1t.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kegfarms View Post
    Still no mention about lower health raids dying too fast. No wonder this game is dying. Just adding new things instead of doing quality of life fixes.

    Forgot to mention Doppelganger is still broken too. AP doesn't go to 5k like all the other raids.
    Think the devs had given up on it.

    By the way, Than made some fine points. It's like ... evolving the guild concept. Now, instead of the 2012-3ish camping way, people can use this very new-ish guild-ish WR-ish raid to provide newer and weaker players with older content. Win-win-win. +1 to his words.

    P.S. Playing some FF-ish games on mobile more often nowadays ... The only reason still on DotD (albeit a lot lesser than in the past) is because of my humble guild, and the members. It's something even the worldwide Final Fantasy (I still remembered writing in this very forum that the moment FF decided to come in, many games would be cast aside) Exvius and Mobius does not have ... a guild feature. Or rather, the japanese still do not have a way to implement it to their (extremely high standards and) satisfaction.

    DotD and 5PG needs to leverage on this fact. Again, consider Than's words. The idea can help prolong the longevity of DotD.


    P.S.S. Wondering if a DotD port to something like Exvius can work out. There was a time DotD was a hot favourite among the online games. People should still remember Cleo's writing (which should appeal more to the Western market, I ... think).
    Currently trying to share awareness on this - I realized that I dont really need anymore Premium Generals, esp with the Lockbox Premium nonsense~! And -1 to the AP Zone, AND Shop~! And the World Server~! And the 2.5T WR~!
    - Started around Xmas Eve '2010. Lena told me so. And, all the best to her, and Cleo. Never expect myself to outstay them here ...

  12. #52
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    • How do you feel about the raidís overall length? I personally would have liked it at 72h.
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots? Yes, guilds can GF this to their hearts content to farm the boxes
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less? There are plenty of tags on this, but whats the point of tags if the returns are poor? If this is a plain honour dump, race tags are irrelevant.
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them? I think the tiers are good, but I personally think you should have them go higher than 70T...
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? Not really, the return was a bit on the poor side.
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough? I can see more of these in the future
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor? Yes, it's a very good start, and it would probably be very easy to update with new drops as required.

  13. #53
    World Mender Plundarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaek View Post
    Blah

    Ewww Micheak.
    Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!


  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by IllisShaki View Post
    Not really the point.. sp should be somewhat based on the dmg dealt to the raid, and since honor is much less the stamina or energy, it is harder to hit those tiers on a honor raid. While i don't think it should be say 500k sp, it should still be around 150-200k at 70t.
    Interesting points - Thank you
    • That sp return would be worth around 100 attack or defence for me so it's not really an issue - on a given weekend my main character will have 150-200 deadly awaiting to die, what does slow that process is loosing honour
    • Oddly across my three platforms I have more honour than either energy on two of them and stam on one.
    • The value of the new raid for me - is that I can get an okay return (okay for honour) , I don't have to hog camps and equally I don't need to solo E Dev's all good for me.
    • Comparing the return vs a DD is pointless as you cannot use honor against them, even looking at using E Dev is a bit pointless unless you're in an elite guild as you'll likely have to solo them to get enough for an honour dump

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kegfarms View Post
    Still no mention about lower health raids dying too fast. No wonder this game is dying. Just adding new things instead of doing quality of life fixes.
    They reduced the cooldown to help a tiny bit with this.

  16. #56
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    Vathik

    The basic raid is OK.

    As an honour dump, to get rid of honour without having to summon loads of GRs (which is still a very tiresome business) I suppose it is OK also (Can be autohit at any time).

    As an attractive way to dump honour it fails its goal:
    • For lower level players it is just another raid to hit OS on
    • Higher level players hit MS in a day at the most and are then faced with just completely wasting honour in the least painful way they can find.

    I still think the better suggestion is a similar raid to this one, in that it would have fixed time and infinite health like WR, but one which relies purely on drops, no worthwhile loot at all for damage. Running it with drops as the goal would mean that any number of hits at all times would be a “useful” way of dumping honour, regardless of player level and guild camp situation (the player may be required to overhit a powerful node = no surplus honour, or not hit too hard or not at all because all camps exhausted = dumping honour a problem).

    I would also promote the other suggestion of actually giving bigger rewards per drop for more hits. I think as an “elite” WR with only SP would be best.

    Maybe I should explain this better.

    Assume the raid drops Thingumies, in six colours, as usual.

    • 10 Thingumies of each colour gives 10 SP
    • 100 Thingumies of each colour gives 200 SP, not 100 (which would be linear increase), or worse (which is the way raid tiers are laid out).
    • 1,000 Thingumies of each colour gives 4,000 SP
    • 10,000 Thingumies gives 80,000 SP
    • 100,000 Thingumies gives 1,600,000 SP
    • 1,000,000 Thingumies of each colour gives 32m SP



    Exact numbers would have to be revised of course, but you get the idea.

    The advantage of this system is that the player is invited to carry on hitting the raid for the drops to get to the next level before crafting. But the player is well advised to craft before the number of drops becomes practically impossible for his level (proportional to the amount of honour to spend).
    High level players, who have more of a chance to reach the high number of drops, on the other hand, need extra SP, because they are likely to be spending well north of 1000 SP for one attack, which at the rate of 10 SP per sixty drops is just not interesting.



    Having said that,
    • I quite like the idea of a guild community drop, but think it quite difficult to code and probably subject to great powercreep problems.
    • I do think the drops are uninteresting for the resources invested at present
    • But it is MUCH BETTER than the personal raid that just came out, which gives us the opportunity to hit just 20 sta once every two days, assuming you remember to summon it punctually.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aapje View Post
    They reduced the cooldown to help a tiny bit with this.
    Which did nothing at all. Plus some of them are still on the regular CD.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kegfarms View Post
    Which did nothing at all. Plus some of them are still on the regular CD.
    Perhaps they could add a crown for most raids summoned or some other reward for summoning and sharing a raid to public. It is clear that most do not summon raids unless a friend asks them for a raid or they themselves want that raid. I say most, because there are people who continually summon raids, share them to public and make sure good magics are applied thereto. If there were 400 new raids to hit vs 130 raids even if the smalls didn't last as long, there'd be more to go round?

    And of course I have no delusion that this is a fix all, just trying to help provide a solution to the problem. Discuss below.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytonde View Post
    Perhaps they could add a crown for most raids summoned or some other reward for summoning and sharing a raid to public. It is clear that most do not summon raids unless a friend asks them for a raid or they themselves want that raid. I say most, because there are people who continually summon raids, share them to public and make sure good magics are applied thereto. If there were 400 new raids to hit vs 130 raids even if the smalls didn't last as long, there'd be more to go round?

    And of course I have no delusion that this is a fix all, just trying to help provide a solution to the problem. Discuss below.
    there is also a suggestion been made to simply make it so that if you have all the raids of one size on cool down, it would automatically make the lowest cool down zero. this would at least allow the ones that do regularly summon be able to summon more often.

    and since at times they would have to summon the bigger raids it would be somewhat hard to abuse. you could of course have high level friends blast the bigger ones away for you I guess in theory, but even at that it would be helping the raid economy.

  20. #60
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    How do you feel about the raidís overall length? The length is reasonable.
    Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots? More magic slots would be nice but are not necessarily needed.
    Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less? It might help anyone who missed out on any of the Crystal Infusion or other Shadow Elf stuff from last month.
    Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them? Definitely more tiers.
    Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? No.Do you want more raids like this or is one enough? Definitely.
    Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor? Yes.

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