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Thread: State of the Game: August 2017

  1. #21
    Silver Arrow delanoalfieri91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post

    Vathik: Feedback Wanted!

    We’re really excited to have added the Event Guild Raid system into the game. As this is our very first raid of this type we’re very eager to collect your extensive and passionate feedback for the future.

    Please respond with any thoughts you have regarding this raid to this SoTG. You can write anything you’d like but please keep it constructive. If you’re not sure what to write here are some possible questions you could answer for us.

    • How do you feel about the raid’s overall length?
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots?
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less?
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them?
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout?
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough?
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor?


    Please get as detailed as you can with your thoughts and reasons behind every answer. Again, the above is just a guideline but feel free to cover any area you’d like regarding the raid.
    So. I love the idea, expecially since it's a Honor dump, something that we really needed. Three magics are ok, nobody will ever hit this raid to get a position on LB. Same for tags: we get on-hit drops, so having a tag against which we have a haste raid would have been nice, but it's not a big deal.

    Most of all, I appreciate the fact that the SP return isn't proportional to the damage, because otherwise big whales would have been even more feeded.
    The crafties, on the contrary, could have been much better divided. I mean... after 70T dealt I get just 1 item more than who deals much less than that... It's different from SP, because it's true that we'd get shiny items faster, but they're not a game changer like the huge SP we get from deadlies or elites, so I see no point on such a low reward.

    Concluding, I'd love to see more H dumps (note that I specified H dump, not generical dumps), and this seems to be a great format, I'llc ontinue constatly dumping H there not because I collect items, but simply because we often need a dump, and Devourers and BHs are not always enough.
    In-game name: Desdemon
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  2. #22
    Spell Slinger Michaek's Avatar
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    Desdemon often needs a dump

  3. #23
    Silver Arrow
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    Did something change? Because Vathik doesn't appear at the top of "Active" raids anymore. I thought all WR's and ER's appear at the top of Active raids, regardless of how you organize the raids.

    (Vathik appeared at the top of the Active raids list the first time he was summoned. But now, he's at the bottom of the list.)

    And no, I haven't changed how I sort my raids. It has always been sorted by Damage.


    EDIT: Also, can we not get so many Citadel raid essences? Crafting them already takes so long. I would prefer---at the moment, since we've gotten several new Shadow Elf raids--to craft them via recipes. The citadel craft timers are already so long. Otherwise, I suggest to lower craft timers on future Citadel raid essences.

  4. #24
    Silver Arrow Namagderas's Avatar
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    Wink beat me softly

    Feels good to be around and its nice that the game is still up, much apreciated!
    Out of curiosity, is this the last month of dawn? kinda surprised there is no talk of looking ahead, stuff in the works, etc.
    Last edited by Namagderas; 1st August 2017 at 22:39. Reason: changing the meaning of my post
    Omer's Collar: proof that 5pg does bait and switch. never forget!
    Guster fault: just so you know, 5pg can and will reset or modify our characters whenever they see fit.
    "we'd like you, the community, to decide which Magics should appear on this raid."... uh, huh.

  5. #25
    Sargaash the Mighty equal Ahlyis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaek View Post
    Ideally I'd like to see a couple of these so that a guild can always have one up
    Buh?

    There's no CD on Vathik. Why can't you have it up all the time with just the 1?
    Azure Bonds on NAG has risen from the dead! We are now a level 10 guild with full guild shop access. Come join us!

  6. #26
    Night Blade 'Beta Nu''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Vathik: Feedback Wanted![/SIZE][/COLOR]
    We’re really excited to have added the Event Guild Raid system into the game. As this is our very first raid of this type we’re very eager to collect your extensive and passionate feedback for the future.

    Please respond with any thoughts you have regarding this raid to this SoTG. You can write anything you’d like but please keep it constructive. If you’re not sure what to write here are some possible questions you could answer for us.

    [list][*] How do you feel about the raid’s overall length?[*] Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots?[*] Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less?[*] Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them?[*] Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout?[*] Do you want more raids like this or is one enough?[*] Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor?
    Length is Good.
    Would love to see Magical creature added to the race tags
    Tiers seem good.
    you really only need one of these raids as an honor dump
    Dumping honor is fine on this raid.

    The problem you have is people want to "Dump" honor but do it efficiently you will never please them.
    A honor dump means you get rid of your honor "dump it" as fast as possible and move on. This raid is good for that
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.

    The Immortal Insurgi, 16th Drake Slayer, 12th Demigod. Insurgi's (AP, FS, OS, Max) Raid Damage Table

  7. #27
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    Given that you can only do one Vathik every 96 hours, and that honor can't be raised with SP, I don't see why it can't reward SP like a Deadly raid. Even if it were to drop SP like an elite, the fact that you can only do one every 4 days limits it sufficiently that it won't contribute significantly to power creep. Also, since it is only once every four days, I don't see why it can't award AP as well. Just set AP for it at 1 damage. 4000 days to get to orange (minimum) is limiting enough.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Vathik: Feedback Wanted!
    We’re really excited to have added the Event Guild Raid system into the game. As this is our very first raid of this type we’re very eager to collect your extensive and passionate feedback for the future.

    Please respond with any thoughts you have regarding this raid to this SoTG. You can write anything you’d like but please keep it constructive. If you’re not sure what to write here are some possible questions you could answer for us.

    • How do you feel about the raid’s overall length?
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots?
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less?
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them?
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout?
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough?
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor?


    Please get as detailed as you can with your thoughts and reasons behind every answer. Again, the above is just a guideline but feel free to cover any area you’d like regarding the raid.
    Initially Vathik came across as another guild raid but with infinite hp and damage tiers.
    However today it looks like doing 1T or 2T of damage to get the same amount of Red mats.
    Only the SP increased, which makes me think it should be called Elite/Deadly Vathik.
    It was a struggle for most to do 1T (on Kasan) and only a small percentage of players reached 70T.
    Regardless of damage done over the past 3 days, the #1 reason I kept seeing for them to do so was for more red mats (then on lower tiers).

    Suggested Changes:
    Change to 24 hours and no CD since only a very small percentage of players will bother hitting it for 70T.
    ...OR... Somehow let the summoner decide on length of time the Vathik Event will be up for: 24/48/72/96 hours
    - and for example 1 player in my guild did 70T within about an hour, and then just kept going through camps the last 3 days.
    3 Magic slots seems about right, however if possible reserve a 4th for Gusters Fault (or Haste/QM/VA/HC/GMT/MT) any of those could make it more of a reason for lower level players to hit.
    Race tags are fine.
    Tiers... the tiers... Secretly put more SP tiers into it going up to a few Q of damage.
    - since we all now know there's no point to hit more then 1-2T of damage to farm those red crafting mats.

    Other players suggestions:
    This idea is the best suggestion (IMO), Community Loot for the Guild total.
    Add summon permissions for guild event raids like Vathik, similar to permissions for summoning campaigns.
    Adding some guild pots like thawing/cursing into the loot would be nice especially for new players.
    To make loot interesting perhaps add the extremely-rare chance to loot 1 guild-related Troop/guild crafting mat(not flags)/guild potions/vampire lockbox/etc
    Last edited by Casillia; 2nd August 2017 at 01:48. Reason: added section called Other players suggestions

  9. #29
    Spell Slinger Exeon's Avatar
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    is just me or one must join to vathik raid directly? join all guild raids doesn't work?
    Starting 10/10/2010
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  10. #30
    Spell Slinger Michaek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    Buh?

    There's no CD on Vathik. Why can't you have it up all the time with just the 1?
    Ah - I was in hurry and only looted, without checking the cool downs -if no coll down then I'm good at 1

  11. #31
    Sister of Radiance Fiel's Avatar
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    This month content seems very lackluster. But i simply don't really care much at this point.

    about GER opinion.


    How do you feel about the raid’s overall length?
    - If it has no cooldown, it should be only 24 hours, so it wouldn't be too long for player who actively play the game and reach tier they want to wait. everyone know now 1T is just right, not worth to hit more than that much. which to be honest, not the good way to dump honor because 1T is achieve quite quick. 1T =2,000SP 10T = 20,000 SP so let me just dump my honor on Devourer instead to have better payout 7,000SP for 1.5T the easy fix would be for every 2T, have a tier that +5,000 SP or every 10T +50,000 SP up to 1Q


    Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots?
    - i think it should be 4 slots without Grimoire affect this raid. so it has slot for Guster for dump honor for get on hit. and player who didn't have grimoire can summon at ease without conecern about additional slot (lead to conflict in guild too)


    Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less?
    - one more would be sweet


    Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them?
    - Tier still not define yet , but it good to have more tier than less anyway.


    Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout?
    - From the initial look, it seems disappointed. It should have direct stat point add in.


    Do you want more raids like this or is one enough?
    - The more the merrier.


    Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor?
    - It could be better but right now it is ok,better than nothing. it should have meaningful on hit drop.
    Last edited by Fiel; 4th August 2017 at 03:48.

  12. #32
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    Length is fine
    Magic slots probably needs one more. Most will have Grimoire summoners, which would allow them to at least get VR+Dm and DE+DS if not better magics like HK, BoM, and Smite. If they DON'T have a Grimoire summoner, it would still let them have VR+Dm or DE+DS with another magic.
    Drops at existing tiers are WAY too low. Quadruple the drops. They don't need to be as high as a Deadly, but they should at least be within the same order of magnitude, especially given the relative fewness of the magic slots. Likewise, the number of these one has to kill to make anything with red drops is rather bonkers.
    Add tiers as high as 1 quintillion. 70T is kinda low for the highest players. While other loot doesn't really need to increase past that point, the Stat Points should continue to rise. (ie 310k or so at 70T, then 400k for each 100T) (Yes, it seems a bit high, but you can get 7k from 1.5T from E Dev)
    As for raid type tags, unless you want to add Dragon and Human to it so I can use those haste necks, which would be bizarre, it won't change anything.
    Last edited by GriffonSpade; 4th August 2017 at 05:27.

  13. #33
    Golden Garden Monk
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    Maybe change the stat bags to potion satchels ?

  14. #34
    Silver Arrow Warric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooktook View Post
    Maybe change the stat bags to potion satchels ?
    not a bad idea, as this raid will make BHH and CC significantly harder to complete for smaller guilds. (guilds that struggle in the first place)

  15. #35
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    First of all I must admit I'm very happy to see that such raid is added to guild raids. Excellent move - thank you devs!


    1. Raid length should be 2 or 3 days long. Here are my thoughs:
    a) There is no special loot in higher tiers to make it attractive to go for it - higher tiers are purely because of dump reason, not to get sth
    b) More over, You get better SP return on lower tiers, so there is no hurt for someone who don't reach 70T
    c) If you need to dump heavily, you better have new raid started with fresh tiers you can reach. I saw almost no hits on last day in our guild
    2. Tags seems to be ok.
    3. We don't know all tiers yet so its too early to say.
    4. SP return is awfully low. I would expect sth around 400k SP at 70T damage - comparable to deadlies. There is no risk, that big hitters became more powerfull because of that one particular raid - it is only 1 raid per 2- 4 days, it makes no significal change in average SP gain per day. One more thing: please remove stat bags from loot and convert it to direct SP (or better: to potion satchels as proposed by Tooktook)
    I expected more red ancient jewelry on 70T tier, but this number could be ok if raid length will be 1 or 2 days less.
    5. One more magic slot will be great, but I can live without any change here - at the end this is mostly honor dump.
    6. I wondered if there should be more raids like this. Maybe not. Maybe better if Guild ER will be only one, but you can add new tiers and new craftables from time to time.


    7. I strongly suggest that you make separate rights to summon guild ER's - it could prevent to make guild community angry if raid is summoned by someone without Grimoire.

  16. #36
    Sargaash the Mighty equal Ahlyis's Avatar
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    With most guild summons, even camps, we can see who the summoner is. If there's a way to see who summoned Vathik, I cannot find it!

    There really should be a way to know who summoned it.
    Azure Bonds on NAG has risen from the dead! We are now a level 10 guild with full guild shop access. Come join us!

  17. #37
    Forum Moderator Ayah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Giant Problem in Little West Kruna
    We’re also adding a Neck piece to this set which will have the same proc and statistical information as the rest of the equipment items.
    Can't we just get upgrade to already exsisting Holy Redeemer's Necklace Giant's Strength?
    Something like Giant's Might or Divine Giant's Strength
    Proc: Same as Divine Redeemer and Increases Player's Attack by 1500 against Giant raids for each piece of Divine Redeemer's set equipped
    or Increases Player's Attack by 750 and aditional 1% base for each piece of Divine Redeemer's set equipped against Giant raids
    or Increases Player's Attack by 750; Increases critical hit chance by 2% (or 1%) for each piece of Divine Redeemer's set equipped against Giant raids
    or Extra 5% damage for each piece of Divine Redeemer's set equipped against Giant raids
    or 1% chance to Increase Player's base Attack by 750% against Giant raids


    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Vathik: Feedback Wanted!

    • How do you feel about the raid’s overall length? - It's ok
    • Do you think it has the right number of Magic slots? - Could get few more 1 or 2
    • Are the race tags sufficient? Does it need more or does it need less? - Either need more or some 'easier' raid tag
    • Are the tiers good? Do you wish there were more or fewer of them? - for now max tier is fine but I'm not sure how many tiers are there so can't answer second part
    • Are you satisfied with the Stat Point payout? - nope
    • Do you want more raids like this or is one enough? - I want more but they should be rare
    • Does this raid give you a satisfactory place to dump your Honor? - yes but could be better to be satisfactory

  18. #38
    Golden Garden Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    With most guild summons, even camps, we can see who the summoner is. If there's a way to see who summoned Vathik, I cannot find it!
    Basic mode shows the summoner; it only gets cut off in advanced mode.

  19. #39
    Sargaash the Mighty equal Ahlyis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesuji View Post
    Basic mode shows the summoner; it only gets cut off in advanced mode.
    Ah, good to know. Thank you.
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  20. #40
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    I think it's worth knowing what the purpose of the raid is. I mean, if it's just a quick way to dispose of honor, and not supposed to do anything else--then it certainly serves that purpose. It gives virtually zero rewards, and if you have the patience to hit it roughly 23 times, you'll get the crafts needed for two items. It drops virtually zero guild coins, stat bags, or stat points. Outside of those two items, it serves no purpose to hit except to expend honor rapidly. If that was the objective, then the conversation is over.

    I admit that I imagined this to be like an actual smaller ER for guilds--with reduced rewards because of the repeatability of it. And, to that point, the lengthy timer on it does serve to gate how many times you run it. But I think it could have really been a lot more. If you're going to have a unique guild feature, as special as camps, it should invest players in their guilds more. People should be excited about this!

    First off, it should drop guild coins, and it should drop them in large amounts. Let's face it--if you can hit 70t with honor, you don't need guild coins. But this could really be a unique source of guild coins for new/low-level guild members that aren't strong enough to hit camps. Hell, while we're at it--have it drop some guild empowerment tokens. I don't need any, but low-level guild players might really be able to use those. Next, let's talk stat points: if it's going to drop bags, or stats, or both--it has to at LEAST return somewhat on par with other raids. Folks are way better off hitting the Devourer 350 times. It just doesn't feel right. Why bother hitting it for 70t, as was hinted, when the rewards are nearly identical to hitting it for 50b? Upgrade the stat rewards to one of the Deadly tier scales.

    The unique neck feels exciting, and like something to pursue. The magic, less so. But then that's it. There should be more items added to the Red Ancient Jewelry craft list. And honestly...a dozen crafts for 70t? If someone wants/is capable of hitting 70t in honor, just give them the neck piece. So what else do we put in there? The easy fill would be a small store, laid out in further crafts. A new guild general, a/some new guild troops. Maybe a legion, etc. You want longevity, right? Add upgrades to existing troops. There are endless upgrades to Locar Kessov, and nobody worries about him. I get that they're WR/ER gated...but this has merit. I have to admit, I've had a lot of fun upgrading Bosso all the way. A guild Shadow Elf troop that you could customize with prolonged Vathik runs would really be attractive to me and change Vathik for me in a big way.

    In short: more drops of everything, more craft items. I don't hate it if you just want it as a trash can for honor. But it had the potential to be so much more. It still can be.

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