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Thread: May Update: New Premium and Episodic Zones

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungi (Helena) View Post
    the additional magic slot was the bulk of that price but then you have a 250pct mimic (which isnt one of the top procs anyway)
    Um, it is by far one of, if not the, top proc in the game...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODragon View Post
    Um, it is by far one of, if not the, top proc in the game...
    Grimoire procs roughly for the same as Jack for me +/- 1-3%. Tuss does 2x as much damage as Grim for me.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalain View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed about Warlock too. In the two key aspects - magic mimic and growth - he's practically half of Grimoire for three quarters of the price. The legion boost adds a bit of power, but he lacks Grim's extra magic slot. He's also not feeling much stronger than some of the recent 50 PC releases (Garn, anyone?).

    Feels like a 75-100, not a 150, compared to other recent releases. On par with Lucian's but not stronger either.

    The idea to have him summon older magics would work to make him feel Dawni-worthy. Maybe, instead of a summoning table (which would quickly be exhausted and could cause issues with uniqueness), he could have a chance to create a craft item. A few dozen (or hundred) of that item make a box that yields a random old PC magic. Pretty much like Bosso works. The low chance nonunique in that box (gotta have something) could just be the box itself, so you can max out the magics without misses.

    On the episodic release - I suppose we can run each area to NM upon release? The way most recent zones worked, you had to go through everything on N, then H and so on. If it still works like that, a staggered release would be extremely limited - you could only repeat N until the zone is complete.
    Yeah I kinda echo your sentiments as well as Wanderers. Let's get into more detail as to why.

    1. Stats Growth: he has a +15 ATT/DEF per magic, as a troop he gets a stats multiplier of 1.8 (1.44+0.36), which is equal to 27 legion stats. If we take Grimoire it's 25 ATT/DEF with a stats multiplier of 2.4 (on account of being a general), which means Grimoire has contributions of 60 legion stats with each magic. That's a bit more than DOUBLE of Warlock.

    2. Magic Mimic: Warlock is 100%. Grimoire is 250%. That's again more than DOUBLE.

    3. Legion Boosts: This is a bit harder to translate to damage boost. But I'm going to assume a base legion boost of the average player to be 1500% (which is already high), and this person would have 60 Magics (which is also already high. This would translate to a mere 2% total damage increase. Now if we looked at Grimoire which adds a whole magic slot, and the damage increase depends on the existing available magic slots. If we assume the average to be 4 slots expanded to 5 slots, this is an 25% increase. Lets also assume the last magic is not as powerful as the previous ones. So the gain of the 5th slot only increases damage by 15-20%. But as you can see that's already 7-10 TIMES more powerful than what Warlock would contribute.

    4. Price: Warlock intends to cost 150 PC. Grimoire released a year ago cost 200 PC. I think no further words are needed to explain the disparity.
    ---

    Solutions:
    1. A price reduction to at least 100 PC or even 75 PC would be in order if everything were to stay. Coupled with the premium Armament, maybe it's a fair solution to people's budget on this Dawni.

    2. Increase its awesomeness in the spirit of it being an actual Dawnivesary premium deserving of this name. This means 30 ATT/DEF plus (resulting in 54 legion stats/magic). 200% magic mimic. 1 % legion boost per magic (keep in mind that this means still only 4% damage increase, as opposed to Grimoire's 15-20%).

    Personally I'd vastly prefer the 2nd option, sorry it's an Dawni prem and therefore should feel awesome and not underwhelming.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by unitedx View Post
    Grimoire procs roughly for the same as Jack for me +/- 1-3%. Tuss does 2x as much damage as Grim for me.
    Grim usually does 2x or more than Tuss and often better than my best mount (which isn't great, free player).

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radger View Post
    Are you crazy???
    - Stats not high enough? How many troops exist with that high stats? 4400/4400 at the moment will keep this prem for a long time in legions.
    - Mimic not good? Trust me 100% is still very good and you cannot compair to grimoir, because first he cost more and second the place in legion for grim is more limited than for new troop
    - Tell me how much troops you have with 70% legion bonus or even 50% :-), and also important boost only for having the troop without using it in active legion
    - increasing gain from magic would make troop much better in stats compared to most generals

    I think this troop is good enough.
    are YOU crazy? all 50pc troops released during last year are better stat-wise than all but 3-4 of my generals (assuming standarized 3/4 modifier).

    mimic is still decent, especially for someone like me, having only mediocre mounts (300-400%). but once you have like 1-1,5k% bonus from crit build+mounts or newest gear, gain from it falls to a few percent merely. (say, 5% on 400% magic raid)

    legion bonus seems like the biggest asset in longer run.
    but how many people have all magics? it was always like the last thing to buy with pc. and even now it's still doesn't seem like a great deal for most of us (unless there would be relatively cheap bundles with old magic, but i guess it's out of question)

    so, still it feels like not enough for an anni ,big' premium (and 150pc). i mean, half year ago he would be fine, but not now.

    personally, i belive even 40-50 stats per magic wouldn't be too much - and that's actually still mostly ,cosmetic' change, since stats are the least important thing for Warlock, but maybe more ,sub-whale' people would feel satisfied with him.
    (sure i would like 150% mimic, higher legion bonus or magic summon ability better...)

  6. #26
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    I don't like this prem at all maybe do some changes if possible meh

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODragon View Post
    Grim usually does 2x or more than Tuss and often better than my best mount (which isn't great, free player).
    You need better mounts, even as a f2p player!

    For those of us using crit builds (which a lot of f2p are using as well), Tuss is far and away the biggest baddie around. Grim is great, no doubt about it, but for pure damage on the proc, Tuss dwarfs him.
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  8. #28
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    I agree with most of the players above. That "Premium" isnt even close to be worth to be called an "Anniversary-Premium". Its like you give a child a 1000 bucks flatscreen for one Birthday and the next you get a 750 bucks lollipop with the taste of dogpoop. Sorry for that but its not even worth to be called a premium if you ask me...

    The last weeks I was like "YAY, What will it be?!" and I saved 150PC from the few money I have and then you give me THAT? Try to think like you are a player with few money like most of us. One day there`s Grim or Utym and other beasts. We doesnt even have a chance to get them because MP is like the worst idea you ever had. Now you give us a prem for magics and most of the players will never be able to get a decent amount of magics to make this premi worth anything. YOU just sit there, thinking "Yay, and now we put all the old crappy magics in MP to get 1000PC for nothing." Try to do some oldschool things...Give us something thats actually worth an Anniversary... What you are doing right now is pissing all the low budget players off really hard. And thats the biggest group of players you got.

    I agree with the idea to give it a magic spawn chance/bag/whatever and a higher mimic + better stats.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    3. Legion Boosts: This is a bit harder to translate to damage boost. But I'm going to assume a base legion boost of the average player to be 1500% (which is already high), and this person would have 60 Magics (which is also already high. This would translate to a mere 2% total damage increase. Now if we looked at Grimoire which adds a whole magic slot, and the damage increase depends on the existing available magic slots. If we assume the average to be 4 slots expanded to 5 slots, this is an 25% increase. Lets also assume the last magic is not as powerful as the previous ones. So the gain of the 5th slot only increases damage by 15-20%. But as you can see that's already 7-10 TIMES more powerful than what Warlock would contribute.
    i've checked a few deadlies, usually it was giving additional 35-40 points to 150-250%, so bonus in range 10-15%. that's rough equvalent to 150-250 points of legion bonus

    but honestly, it's hard to compare it as you can benefit from Grim's feature not owning him

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Greetings, adventurers!

    New Premium Troop: Warlock




    Warlock will be available starting May 19th, 2017 for 150 PC. He will be available for direct purchase until June 2nd, 2017.

    Meh, I will be disappointed every time they create content that costs over 100pc.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killersdaddy View Post
    What you are doing right now is pissing all the low budget players off really hard. And thats the biggest group of players you got.
    Biggest group, but a very small percentage of total revenue. Granted, we need the f2p players to keep the environment healthy. But 5PG needs to keep the top 1% of players happy every bit as much because that top 1% generates 95% of the revenue! (I don't know the exact numbers, but you get the point... I hope.)
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  12. #32
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    yeah, totally got it but even if its just 20% of F2P and low budget players leaving the game, it would have a huge impact on the game itself. even "whales" would loose every bit of fun if they play a dead game

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalain View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed about Warlock too. In the two key aspects - magic mimic and growth - he's practically half of Grimoire for three quarters of the price. The legion boost adds a bit of power, but he lacks Grim's extra magic slot. He's also not feeling much stronger than some of the recent 50 PC releases (Garn, anyone?).

    Feels like a 75-100, not a 150, compared to other recent releases. On par with Lucian's but not stronger either.

    The idea to have him summon older magics would work to make him feel Dawni-worthy. Maybe, instead of a summoning table (which would quickly be exhausted and could cause issues with uniqueness), he could have a chance to create a craft item. A few dozen (or hundred) of that item make a box that yields a random old PC magic. Pretty much like Bosso works. The low chance nonunique in that box (gotta have something) could just be the box itself, so you can max out the magics without misses.

    On the episodic release - I suppose we can run each area to NM upon release? The way most recent zones worked, you had to go through everything on N, then H and so on. If it still works like that, a staggered release would be extremely limited - you could only repeat N until the zone is complete.
    while do like the idea of an old magic box, there is about zero chance the devs would ever design it so that it forced you to get all of the magics with X of them by the default item being the same box no matter how rare it was to make the box.

    but something they could do is add in a troop(s) (call them warlock apprentices maybe) that is related to the premium as the default rare item to avoid it all being uniques. then the premium could gain some power from owning a certain number of them. if it was more than one troop, could have each one boost different things like bosso did with his familiars, would be a means to let the RNG draw out the time until you could fully max the premium out (would assume there would be some form of cap on what the troops could boost warlock). you have attack/defense/proc damage as 3 different modifiers already, could add in a 4th much rarer troop (or just have the 4th troop crafted from some number of the first 3 so have to give up their boosts for a time) that would slowly increase the legion power boost from 0.5% per magic up to 1% per magic.

    in time you would get most if not all of the magics that way and still have some longer term fun collecting up the associated troops. would assume the box rates be an even split between all non "special" (ie, level magics and such) magics plus 3 more slots for the troops. then the troops would be fairly rare at first and only become somewhat common as you have collected up most of the existing magics. of course once get to just 3 magics left to fish out for example it would be 50% chance of a troop so the last few magics could take a while to fish out.


    of course if such a box was made, they would almost have to include 1 or more magics that could only come from that box and/or crafting of the troops in the box




    if they not want to add more troops, the same concept could be done with an associated equipment set that gains power based off how many copies you have or such.






    and best of all if they do work out a means to do a "magic summon box", the same thinking could be applied to legions for a future fontella version 2.0....

  14. #34
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    Premium Meh... not the best but not as bad as "the Guild" premium's Seems Magic proc is expensive. Not a fan of the 150pc price tag but its a troop and mimics magics so will get it.

    New Quest zone done in bit part means either Not finished yet Or has a lot in it... I am hoping its Loaded with goodies, Won't be shocked though if its not.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    You need better mounts, even as a f2p player!
    Constructive advice always taken... feel free to give.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    For those of us using crit builds (which a lot of f2p are using as well), Tuss is far and away the biggest baddie around. Grim is great, no doubt about it, but for pure damage on the proc, Tuss dwarfs him.
    In about 2 months (at the current rate I am getting SBA pieces from daily), I'll have at least one set to go with the one boar I have.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Beta Nu' View Post
    New Quest zone done in bit part means either Not finished yet Or has a lot in it... I am hoping its Loaded with goodies, Won't be shocked though if its not.
    You forgot option #3... the zone is done and has nothing of note in it, but by parceling it out over 4 weeks they have something "new and shiny" to give us for the next 4 patches.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Beta Nu' View Post
    Premium Meh... not the best but not as bad as "the Guild" premium's Seems Magic proc is expensive. Not a fan of the 150pc price tag but its a troop and mimics magics so will get it.

    New Quest zone done in bit part means either Not finished yet Or has a lot in it... I am hoping its Loaded with goodies, Won't be shocked though if its not.

    am thinking they want to treat it as several mini zones tied together. that and it is probably to help reduce the feast or famine we get with new zones. this way they could make a new whole zone, but maybe just open up one section every 2 or 3 weeks to draw out the newiness.

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    Add me to the "meh" list for the prem. For all the reasons stated before I got here.

    As to the new episodic zone...I don't get it. Is there a reason to drag it out? If you don't want people getting AP credit for it right away, just release it all later. I'm not seeing a point to doing it one at a time for a few weeks, only to have it like every other zone forever after that. Am I missing something? Maybe if it changed depending on how you advanced, like a choose-your-own-adventure, but right now it just seems like a tease. Not even an exciting tease.

  19. #39
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    I'll get the premium, heck, I'll like the premium, but doesn't seem all that special to me. Meh-iversary.

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  20. #40
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    I've never complained about a prem before, but this is dawnniversary and this prem should be AMAZING to reflect another year of the game. IDC if you jack it up to 200pc, just give me an amazing prem, I've been waiting months for this day.

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