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Thread: State of the Game: April 2017

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    ...but, why mentioning (1) specifically? how is it different from other procs?
    I don't know, I mean, that extra 10% isn't a mimic or anything, it's just an extra proc.

    Also, if they add a Kobold raid type, there is at least regular Horgrak, Drulcharus, Old Foes world raid, and Deadly Horgrak.

    (Yes, I noticed Aesa booting a kobold off the wall in the first Drulcharus raid image)

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    for some reasons it worries me, but maybe i should have more faith in you guys



    ok, i know, people keep asking for it, but someone explain me please, what good may it actually do? (i mean, maybe later, with more options implemented...)


    ?

    the point behind the casters name on the magic is that in theory the player could be talked to and reasoned with into better magic selection. take the level 2.5K and 5K magics, for instance. they seem like they should be good magics, but in reality are terrible, yet you find several fresh immortals casting the 2.5K magic everywhere until someone gets them to actually read the description now that it has numbers on it.

    and there is also the issue of serious aggressive magic trolling, it is not always clear currently who is casting pointless magics which makes it somewhat difficult to report someone that is doing so in an intent to be disruptive. with the names on the magics, it will be possible for players pass on the names of a player that is consistently trying to be disruptive with their magic selections. the devs may not view the issue the same as the players, but at least it will be possible to quickly reach a decision on such an issue with the name of the player in question known for certain at the start of it.

    of course tied in with that is a bit of implicit permission of "naming and shaming" of magic trolls from the devs. but if we do have means to restrict the worst of the useless magics, most of the magic trolling dies anyway.

  3. #43
    Town Guard Mikiky's Avatar
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    Does blocking someone actually stop them from seeing your raids? I only ask this because once you know the name of a true magic troll, you can block them. Once everyone starts to block the trolls, they will slowly whimper into non-existence and fade back into obscurity.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikiky View Post
    Does blocking someone actually stop them from seeing your raids? I only ask this because once you know the name of a true magic troll, you can block them. Once everyone starts to block the trolls, they will slowly whimper into non-existence and fade back into obscurity.
    nope you can still see their raids and hit them
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowstar View Post
    the point behind the casters name on the magic is that in theory the player could be talked to and reasoned with into better magic selection. take the level 2.5K and 5K magics, for instance. they seem like they should be good magics, but in reality are terrible, yet you find several fresh immortals casting the 2.5K magic everywhere until someone gets them to actually read the description now that it has numbers on it.

    and there is also the issue of serious aggressive magic trolling, it is not always clear currently who is casting pointless magics which makes it somewhat difficult to report someone that is doing so in an intent to be disruptive. with the names on the magics, it will be possible for players pass on the names of a player that is consistently trying to be disruptive with their magic selections. the devs may not view the issue the same as the players, but at least it will be possible to quickly reach a decision on such an issue with the name of the player in question known for certain at the start of it.
    so, i don't belive in actual ,magic trolls' being any serious thing - well, unless it's FB specific, don't know that server. that's not impossible, regarding how other ones vary in ,magic policy'.
    actually, however, from my observations, most if not all the bad stuff casted deliberately on NAG and Kong happens when someone gets annoyed by one of the ,magic disciples'
    (on the side note, i don't belive data on mentioned magics descriptions is ,correct enough' but that's another story - and they are bad anyway)

    either way, huge fraction of players cast bad magic simply because they don't care enough to learn about it (some may not even speak english), knowing their names won't change much imo


    Quote Originally Posted by snowstar View Post
    of course tied in with that is a bit of implicit permission of "naming and shaming" of magic trolls from the devs. but if we do have means to restrict the worst of the useless magics, most of the magic trolling dies anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Beta Nu' View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikiky View Post
    Does blocking someone actually stop them from seeing your raids? I only ask this because once you know the name of a true magic troll, you can block them. Once everyone starts to block the trolls, they will slowly whimper into non-existence and fade back into obscurity.
    nope you can still see their raids and hit them
    so, Mikiky, basically, you want to be able to decide who is worthy enough to be allowed to play the game and who's not? luckily, it will be never up to the players

    and that's what i'm talking about, all we can do is ,naming and shaming'.
    i don't expect it to do much good, quite a contrary.
    i belive devs plan to gave us this feature first as it's easiest for them to implement, but for now that's not even a substitute of real solution, not untill we'll be given ,casters blacklists'


    and as i think about it now, it seems pretty obvious that what we primarily need is more options in removing unwanted stuff.
    how about (in adition to removing our own magic) setting some ,managers', trusted people being able to remove magic from others' raids if they are given permision from the person.
    or maybe even they could be granted general permission by devs -probably much easier to implement. they would be simply following peoples directions left in raid chat.
    sure, not a perfect solution, but i belive it's both less ,invasive' and requires less effort from devs

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    so, i don't belive in actual ,magic trolls' being any serious thing - well, unless it's FB specific, don't know that server. that's not impossible, regarding how other ones vary in ,magic policy'.
    actually, however, from my observations, most if not all the bad stuff casted deliberately on NAG and Kong happens when someone gets annoyed by one of the ,magic disciples'
    So, basically magic trolls aren't trolls, they are players who throw magic tantrums? I'm sorry, if you get annoyed, there is a 'mute' button, use that instead of deliberately sabotaging others raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    (on the side note, i don't belive data on mentioned magics descriptions is ,correct enough' but that's another story - and they are bad anyway)
    Correct enough? You have a rate, and a damage multiplier. Only 2 magics, that I can think of, in the game are that even slightly complicated, IL and GF.
    Here's a qwik and EZ guide: Take the first number(the 'rate'), divide it by 100, and multiply the result by the damage multiplier.
    Take a 5% chance for 1000% damage, you get 0.05x1000=50%, so that magic is 50% average.
    If a magic is worth less than 30%, don't cast it!
    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    either way, huge fraction of players cast bad magic simply because they don't care enough to learn about it (some may not even speak english), knowing their names won't change much imo
    It isn't complicated, I figured it out in a similar game I played when I was 11. You have calculator, the game provides you with numbers, and I just gave the formula above. If you have time to throw a bad magic casting tantrum, you have time to learn this. Also, numbers are numbers, no matter the language. And, if you are playing a english text based game it is reasonable expectation that you can understand the language.
    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    so, Mikiky, basically, you want to be able to decide who is worthy enough to be allowed to play the game and who's not? luckily, it will be never up to the players
    and that's what i'm talking about, all we can do is ,naming and shaming'.
    To the contrary, we can educate them.
    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    i don't expect it to do much good, quite a contrary.
    i belive devs plan to gave us this feature first as it's easiest for them to implement, but for now that's not even a substitute of real solution, not untill we'll be given ,casters blacklists'


    and as i think about it now, it seems pretty obvious that what we primarily need is more options in removing unwanted stuff.
    how about (in adition to removing our own magic) setting some ,managers', trusted people being able to remove magic from others' raids if they are given permision from the person.
    or maybe even they could be granted general permission by devs -probably much easier to implement. they would be simply following peoples directions left in raid chat.
    sure, not a perfect solution, but i belive it's both less ,invasive' and requires less effort from devs
    Even with this solution, what would really put a dent in this is education. All the devs can do is make it easier for players to fix bad magics, educating others would stop the bad magics before they are cast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    nothing in this description actually indicates that. it seems to imply that each proc will have separae 0,5 chance to be mimicked.
    but i'm afraid you may be right, as it's simply the logical move for reducing number of operations
    I just said how it was done in LotS maybe they will change that in here but I doubt that

    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    i take 200 was a typo?
    No, but I'm not sure right now because Devs changed wording again >.<
    Kitania have: Kitania deals 40% more damage
    and she deals 140%

    Tibius have: Tibius Sprightspring deals 75% more damage
    and he should deal 175% (I can't check or confirm that)

    But Olivia have: Olivia will deal 100% extra damage
    So that sound she will deal 200%
    unless extra =/= more

    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    then it should say something like ,does not mimic/copy/work_on other mimics'.
    stucking, in this context, clearly means that effects work/exist together.
    but once again you're probably right (as no other option makes sense).
    Well because devs changed wording from:

    Note: This does not apply to damage mimic abilities
    to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    does not stack with other mimic abilities
    So I'm not sure what does it mean maybe it will not copy already copied dmg? Or it will simply not copy mimic abilities like others

    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    but, why mentioning (1) specifically? how is it different from other procs?
    That is my thing because it's Tomb Mimic ability and his wording is:

    Tomb Mimic mimics a portion of your damage on each attack; Chance to mimic your base damage
    But his dmg will be copied by general mimicking premiums
    Last edited by Ayah; 3rd April 2017 at 23:06.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post


    and that's what i'm talking about, all we can do is ,naming and shaming'.
    i don't expect it to do much good, quite a contrary.
    i belive devs plan to gave us this feature first as it's easiest for them to implement, but for now that's not even a substitute of real solution, not untill we'll be given ,casters blacklists'
    have personally always felt the best and easiest fix for the magics would be to be able to block certain players form casting on your raids instead of trying to hand pick permissions for the magics. for one, there is already code in the game to manage lists of players and group them together keyed on the player name (well id directly most likely), just use the structure of the chat blocking feature if nothing else.

    this avoids the whole issue of having to make a master of list of approved magics and/or modifying said list for different raids. if someone is casting something you not like on your raid for any reason, you just block that player from casting to your raids out right. then either the player can just accept you don't like their choice of magics or they can ask you how to get back permission to cast on your raids. any magic trolls would be stopped within a few hours to a couple of days at most. it wouldn't matter what "level" of magic they are using to troll with, as it would be the player blocked not the magic choice. any "newbie" that doesn't understand the magics one would assume would ask questions of why they are finding themselves blocked from casting and once they know what the better magics are their block could/would be lifted.

    say you just detest the magic Guster's Fault for what ever reason on most raids but don't mind it on a 1-hit idle farming raid. if you have asked players to abide by your wishes in this and certain ones refuse, you could just block those players from casting without having to tinker with magic lists on and off to let GF be cast on one set of raids but not another. this way you are not having to sort out good versus bad magics, but would be sorting out good *casters* versus bad *casters*.

    if the devs feel that this in some twisted way could be tried to be abused (not really sure how it could as not letting someone cast a magic doesn't harm them) they could place a preset week or so time limit on the casting blocks so an average player could never permanently block another player from casting on their raids. with a dev/moderator over ride option to make blocks longer and/or across the whole player base, exempting the players own personally summoned raids of course, to be used only in the most extreme cases.


    honestly don't understand why the devs aren't exploring this option instead of the extra work to make hand picking of magics the path being taken.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post

    Progress Report: Magic Preferences
    With Phase 1 out of the way we’ve been reviewing your feedback and considering our next move for the Summoner Magic Preferences system. Currently our tech team is spending some additional time cleaning up the way Magics function on the backend. This is being done to improve overall game performance and give us a bit more flexibility with future Magic projects. It’s an unfortunately necessary step for us to move on to the next section but progress is good so far.

    As for actually implementing the next portion (summoners choosing the magics they’d like) we’ve made some modifications to our proposed course of action. Please review the following and give us your feedback on if you feel this would satisfy your needs as a raid summoner:
    • As opposed to setting your preference for each individual slot, you would now set a master list of “allowed” magics.
    • This allowed list would be universal for all of your raids and would be remembered session to session (so you wouldn’t need to reset it upon each login)
    • Magics would display the caster’s name on mouseover so you (or anyone) can see who has applied a Magic. This is functionality that existed in our sister game, Legacy of a Thousand Suns and is something we’ve considered bringing over for awhile.


    We’re considering this approach in part because it’s something the community has already suggested and also because we want to make this process extremely easy. The goal is to enable you to spend some time sorting out your preferences once and then benefitting from it going forward. It would require a little initial configuration but would not require a lot of upkeep and “resetting” your preferences each raid, which was an inherent flaw in our previous proposal.

    We don’t currently have an ETA on the implementation of this feature but with Phase 1 out of the way and the next portion underway it’s progressing favorably.

    Please let us know what you think about these changes in a response to this thread.
    Really hope that with this is implementing a list of people whom can edit the magics on your raid as well because sometimes people don't always stay on to remove magics at certain times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Game Performance
    There was a recent thread in the forums raising concerns that game performance has recently slipped, resulting in some players experiencing a plethora of loading issues or other problems (loading spinners, etc)
    I don't know if this counts, but whenever i loot E. Yule Present Bearer and get the gift sacks they don't appear in my inventory until sometimes up to 2 hours later (i refresh my inventory, my whole game, everything i just end up having to wait until they appear) is it just not loading them or what?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowstar View Post
    the point behind the casters name on the magic is that in theory the player could be talked to and reasoned with into better magic selection.
    If that would be the end of it then I would support it. But I think we all know what will happen besides this will be ridicule and harassment. I think this will end up doing more harm than good.
    If you want to "ignore" someone on the forum just click their name, click profile, and beneath their avatar you'll see an ignore link. Comes in really handy at times when you don't want to deal with that certain someone's constant negativity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TitoBandito View Post
    If that would be the end of it then I would support it. But I think we all know what will happen besides this will be ridicule and harassment. I think this will end up doing more harm than good.
    true, as said before, it opens up a bit of tacit permission from the devs for naming and shaming at least in the context of the magics.

    is part of why I would prefer we just be able to block certain players from casting magics on raids instead of trying to micro manage the magic selection.

    then the why a player has been blocked from casting would mostly stay personal and if it becomes public would mostly come from the blocked player asking in public what they did to get blocked. still chances for the peanut gallery to toss peanuts of course, but more likely to see people suggesting links to better magic selections.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitoBandito View Post
    If that would be the end of it then I would support it. But I think we all know what will happen besides this will be ridicule and harassment. I think this will end up doing more harm than good.
    I am fully expecting ***** on NAG to be merciless with rude, belittling and degrading comments towards anyone who dares to cast something he considers as a suboptimal magic on a raid. I mean, he already does that, but now he'll be able to direct it at specific names.

    That's certainly a negative for this change. But is it enough that the change shouldn't be released? Don't we have chat Mods there to give ***** a timeout if he gets out of line?

    I think the benefits of knowing who exactly to try to educate outweigh the negatives, but I admit I may be a bit naive here.

    *shrug*

    *I'm sure everyone on NAG knows who I'm referring to.
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    Would it be possible to implement priority magic instead?

    Where you allow any magic to be placed into a raid, but the summoner maintains a list of priority magic where if a user cast priority magic in that raid, it will replace a magic that was not on the priority list.

    This would allow for flexibility and still allow for optimization. People would not be locked out of using any magic if a summoner maintains very strict list, but allows for better and priority magic to stick on that raid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TitoBandito View Post
    If that would be the end of it then I would support it. But I think we all know what will happen besides this will be ridicule and harassment. I think this will end up doing more harm than good.
    I agree with you completely here.
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    As long as the default is nothing then I dont care about the magic update. I dont summon, or hit, deadly raids, and rarely cast magic other than GF, GG or NMQ magics. I dont want the hassle of having to set up lists just so I can summon 1 hit raids.

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    Hello Dev's, interesting month ahead and all sounds great.

    In regards to the magic changes I think having several preset lists available would be the way to go.
    Unless your allowing us to setup a set for each raid and you save the last magic set we did for that raid and use it for next time.

    Also would it be possible to choose NO MAGICS on a raid?
    Being involved into running several raid events we do only allow magics onto certain raids, but do not want magics on the others.
    So having the option to set NO MAGICS would be fantastic.

    Also knowing who casts magics will be a good thing for us, because then it will be easier to address the casting of wrong magics.
    We like to be able to approach the members that do this so they can be educated

    Happy Hunting

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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrolizard View Post
    Correct enough? You have a rate, and a damage multiplier. Only 2 magics, that I can think of, in the game are that even slightly complicated, IL and GF.
    Here's a qwik and EZ guide: Take the first number(the 'rate'), divide it by 100, and multiply the result by the damage multiplier.
    Take a 5% chance for 1000% damage, you get 0.05x1000=50%, so that magic is 50% average.
    If a magic is worth less than 30%, don't cast it!
    ha ha... nope
    one thing is, that, since we don't have random number generation here, NONE of the rates provided in descriptions is actually correct - most are however ,correct enough' :)

    but that's not very important, bigger problem is that your qwik n EZ way is also not good enough, as the rate is generally more important when you go for total damage output (opposing to ,fishing')
    and there are additional factors here, like if you hit very hard, or maybe a bit ,softer'
    so, yes, i'm not quite sure now if you really know how to distingush ,good' and ,bad' magic

    (btw. it's a bonus, not multiplier, and i don't get that dividing_by_100 part - how about 5%x1000%=5%x10=50% - but it's not important as long as results are correct)

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrolizard View Post
    It isn't complicated, I figured it out in a similar game I played when I was 11. You have calculator, the game provides you with numbers, and I just gave the formula above. If you have time to throw a bad magic casting tantrum, you have time to learn this. Also, numbers are numbers, no matter the language.(...)
    To the contrary, we can educate them.(...)
    Even with this solution, what would really put a dent in this is education.(...) educating others would stop the bad magics before they are cast.
    you don't get it, for many people what you propose here is, let's say, completely ,incopatible' with their definition of spending good time on an online game, bah, even reading may be too much :)
    they come here to play, not to be educated

    and that leads us to another thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrolizard View Post
    So, basically magic trolls aren't trolls, they are players who throw magic tantrums?.

    -some people don't want to waste time learning bout magic
    -they may get annoyed when lectured about importance of casting proper magic and ,throw magic tantrums' as a result
    -we'll probably have a lot more lecturing after applaying the feat we talk about

    add that together

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    Quote Originally Posted by czaka View Post
    ha ha... nope
    one thing is, that, since we don't have random number generation here, NONE of the rates provided in descriptions is actually correct - most are however ,correct enough'

    but that's not very important, bigger problem is that your qwik n EZ way is also not good enough, as the rate is generally more important when you go for total damage output (opposing to ,fishing')
    and there are additional factors here, like if you hit very hard, or maybe a bit ,softer'
    so, yes, i'm not quite sure now if you really know how to distingush ,good' and ,bad' magic

    (btw. it's a bonus, not multiplier, and i don't get that dividing_by_100 part - how about 5%x1000%=5%x10=50% - but it's not important as long as results are correct)



    you don't get it, for many people what you propose here is, let's say, completely ,incopatible' with their definition of spending good time on an online game, bah, even reading may be too much
    they come here to play, not to be educated

    and that leads us to another thing:




    -some people don't want to waste time learning bout magic
    -they may get annoyed when lectured about importance of casting proper magic and ,throw magic tantrums' as a result
    -we'll probably have a lot more lecturing after applaying the feat we talk about

    add that together
    without seeing the code, how do you know that dotd doent have a rnd number generator?

    anyway, some people will learn about 'proper' magics, and i hope at least some of those that dont want wont be throwing a magic tantrums, so we will have new trolls, but is not like everyone will become one
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayah View Post
    No, but I'm not sure right now because Devs changed wording again >.<
    Kitania have: Kitania deals 40% more damage
    and she deals 140%

    Tibius have: Tibius Sprightspring deals 75% more damage
    and he should deal 175% (I can't check or confirm that)

    But Olivia have: Olivia will deal 100% extra damage
    So that sound she will deal 200%
    unless extra =/= more
    Whenever a Troop does damage, Kitania deals 40% more damage

    even not being anglophone i belive i can say authoritatively that this description is quite clear in informing us that she does 140% of the damage a troop does - and you don't need to have experience in playing DotD to say that
    the same for Tibius

    50% chance that when a General or Troop procs, Olivia will deal 100% extra damage

    as for this, indeed, you could theoretically be right - it's not very clear what damage we talk about in the first place (i belive it's not final version).
    but - this time basing on my knowledge how word extra is usually used in similar situation in the game - i think it's just 100% of mentioned damage


    Quote Originally Posted by Ayah View Post
    Well because devs changed wording from:

    Note: This does not apply to damage mimic abilities
    to:
    does not stack with other mimic abilities
    So I'm not sure what does it mean maybe it will not copy already copied dmg? Or it will simply not copy mimic abilities like others

    Originally Posted by czaka
    but, why mentioning (1) specifically? how is it different from other procs?
    That is my thing because it's Tomb Mimic ability and his wording is:

    Tomb Mimic mimics a portion of your damage on each attack; Chance to mimic your base damage
    But his dmg will be copied by general mimicking premiums
    ok, that's pretty complicated to follow :)
    so instead i'll try to make some things clear:

    - tomb mimic's description is simply faulty(misleading) - i don't know, maybe someone wanted it to match thematically with the name :) - both it's/his procs are ,normal'
    (btw. mimcs are not mimicked because they can't be, and not because of some set restrictions)
    -(1) is no different from other procs (yes, my question was in fact rhetorical)
    sure, uncapped procs are less numerous than capped ones, still they are too common -see all mounts, also pc stuff from last months- to call them special in any way

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