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Thread: State of the Game: April 2017

  1. #21
    Sister of Radiance
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    horgrak doppelganger - u got your magical tag

  2. #22
    Forum Moderator Ayah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unitedx View Post
    "50% chance that when a general/troop proc, Olivia will deal 100% extra damage..."

    Does that mean she mimics generals/troops or does she just do another 100% of her own damage?
    That means if there is at least 1 non-mimic proc form General or Troop she will have 50% chance to deal 200% dmg from all Generals and Troops that proced during attack (At least that is how chance to mimic premiums acted in Lots: Boone, Panda, Batman)

    Quote Originally Posted by unitedx View Post
    Also, "(does not stack with other mimic abilities)"

    Does this mean this part of her ability doesn't activate when Utym or Claudia procs their abilities?
    Her ability won't copy mimic dmg from Aliyah, Cermarina, Claudia, Drogan Mar, Grimoire, Jack, Kitania1, Kraken, Bakku, Tussao, Utym, Zumara.


    1 Extra 10% damage if the raid timer is above 65% - this will activate Olivia's ability
    Last edited by Ayah; 1st April 2017 at 12:27.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Introduction
    Welcome to the month of fools, the days of jesters, the…
    Cool! I should fit right in than

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Raids! Getcha Raids Here!
    This month will see the return of four anniversary raids: Lyrpan, Phantoms of Kazarach, Old Foes and Spectres of the Claw. There will be one World Raid summoned each week this month starting with Lyrpan on April 7th.
    Awesome! Keep them coming .... or mooving :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Progress Report: Magic Preferences
    We’re considering this approach in part because it’s something the community has already suggested and also because we want to make this process extremely easy. The goal is to enable you to spend some time sorting out your preferences once and then benefitting from it going forward. It would require a little initial configuration but would not require a lot of upkeep and “resetting” your preferences each raid, which was an inherent flaw in our previous proposal.
    This sounds great and yes sounds like what players are mostly wanting, however......
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    • As opposed to setting your preference for each individual slot, you would now set a master list of “allowed” magics.
    • This allowed list would be universal for all of your raids and would be remembered session to session (so you wouldn’t need to reset it upon each login)
    I guess this kinda depends on how it is implemented.
    How easy?
    Would this auto-default on ALL your summoned raids?
    As others have mentioned this could be problematic. You would not want BH magics applied on NMQ, and I can see other issues with many others as well. What magics I want on Gigantics and Colossals would be entirely different for most lower classes, where I would not really care too much what all magics are applied, so long as they just have some decent magics on them.
    So if it is not very easy changing, maybe we can have like Ayliss suggested. Like 3 magic presets. This would be good idea to be able to buy maybe up to 2 more presets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post


    • Magics would display the caster’s name on mouseover so you (or anyone) can see who has applied a Magic. This is functionality that existed in our sister game, Legacy of a Thousand Suns and is something we’ve considered bringing over for awhile.
    This should solve the issue with accidently thinking you are removing your magic and instead remove someone elses and you are no longer able to replace the magic. ..... not so sure about needing all caster's names though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Premium Troop and Special General Releases
    This month will see the release of a special General in addition to the new premium, Olivia, The Whimsical Harbinger.

    She will be available for two weeks as usual and she will cost 75 Planet Coins.
    Tbh, and I hate to say this. But I actually think 75PC is bit too low. I know and understand the given reasons stated as to why and really appreciate the thought. But considering it is damage mimic along with minor addition of stat increase. Essences come out on a fairly consistent manor, as opposed to like some rare implementations (rare races, necks etc.).

    In its current proposed form, I would rather pay 100PC, than to pay 75 only to see it being nerfed down the road. Nerfing is just so bad and disruptive, leaving so many ill feelings among the community. A higher price point may not be very popular, but trust me, please avoid any nerfs at all costs.

  4. #24
    Sister of Radiance eevee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Beta Nu' View Post
    The easiest way is what they are proposing a list of allowed magics on all raids.

    This however doesn't help if you want specific magics on different raids.

    What I don't want is anyone casting magics on my raid that I have not requested, Even if its their "Best Magic".
    So you see yourself that the proposed system by the Devs is in lots of cases (where it matters) not helpful. Why not find a better one, if they already bothered to overhaul the system?

    As for your "What I don't want is anyone casting magics on my raid that I have not requested, Even if its their "Best Magic".", imo it's an unrational fear. With an override system it takes the SAME TIME to fill your raids with the magics you want.

    I give an example: Let's say you have 10 people. 5 of them have stellar magics, 3 of them have average magics, and 2 of them have noob magics. And your raid has 5 magic slots. These 10 ppl join your raid in an arbitrary order within 2 minutes and will try to magic up your raid.

    1. Scenario: We use the Devs system: you specify a tight list where only 5 of the stellar magics appear on there. After 2 min, you get your 5 stellar magics on the list.

    2. Scenario: We use the Devs system: you specifiy a not-so-tight list where 5 of the stellar magics plus 3 of the average magics appear on the list. After 2 min, you're likely to get a mixed setup of stellar and average magics on your raid. If you wanted the stellar magics, you'd now have to manually remove average ones and request via chat for the stellar ones.

    3. Scenario: We use an override system: you have a "game default" system, where the best magics replace the worst one if the slots are full. After 2 min, you get your 5 stellar magics.

    4. Scenaro: We use an override system: you have a "user default" system, where you specify one of the average magics to be on the list, because of a certain effect you like. After 2 min, you get your 5 desired magics.

    5. Scenario: We use an override system: for this specific raid, you turn a normal override slot into a specific override slot for a noob magic, because someone or you need it right now. After 2 min you get your 5 desired magics.

    So, is the override system not the far more flexible and superior system after 2 min, if you cast aside your fear that somewhere in between those 2 min you may temporarily have a few undesired magics appear on your raid?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    So you see yourself that the proposed system by the Devs is in lots of cases (where it matters) not helpful. Why not find a better one, if they already bothered to overhaul the system?

    As for your "What I don't want is anyone casting magics on my raid that I have not requested, Even if its their "Best Magic".", imo it's an unrational fear. With an override system it takes the SAME TIME to fill your raids with the magics you want.

    I give an example: Let's say you have 10 people. 5 of them have stellar magics, 3 of them have average magics, and 2 of them have noob magics. And your raid has 5 magic slots. These 10 ppl join your raid in an arbitrary order within 2 minutes and will try to magic up your raid.

    1. Scenario: We use the Devs system: you specify a tight list where only 5 of the stellar magics appear on there. After 2 min, you get your 5 stellar magics on the list.

    2. Scenario: We use the Devs system: you specifiy a not-so-tight list where 5 of the stellar magics plus 3 of the average magics appear on the list. After 2 min, you're likely to get a mixed setup of stellar and average magics on your raid. If you wanted the stellar magics, you'd now have to manually remove average ones and request via chat for the stellar ones.

    3. Scenario: We use an override system: you have a "game default" system, where the best magics replace the worst one if the slots are full. After 2 min, you get your 5 stellar magics.

    4. Scenaro: We use an override system: you have a "user default" system, where you specify one of the average magics to be on the list, because of a certain effect you like. After 2 min, you get your 5 desired magics.

    5. Scenario: We use an override system: for this specific raid, you turn a normal override slot into a specific override slot for a noob magic, because someone or you need it right now. After 2 min you get your 5 desired magics.

    So, is the override system not the far more flexible and superior system after 2 min, if you cast aside your fear that somewhere in between those 2 min you may temporarily have a few undesired magics appear on your raid?
    two things.

    one the game *internally* doesn't rank magics as good or bad.... certainly not in any specific order. they could possibly rank them by average damage, but as you say there is many times you might want a magic for reason other than just raw damage.

    two, while in pure theory an over ride system would be the best, *IF* you could for certain be bumping off the "worst" (see point 1) magic each time. but it likely would require much much more development time and tweaking to make work as well has have much more potential for bugs.



    we need to consider what is really the objective with the magic casting controls. is it just to avoid the truly useless/trolling magics or is it to ensure perfect magics?

    personally would say it not the devs place to even be trying to ensure perfection of magics on raids as that has always been on the summoner to get the magics they want on it, which even you admit only takes a couple of minutes normally even as it is now.

    while it is in the devs interest to avoid players trolling intentionally or accidentally with bad magics, as that is disruptive to over all game play. keep in mind what seems to have pushed the devs into working on this in the first place was a player aggressively casting and recasting QM with what seemed like a script for how fast it was done on every single raid they could find, not someone having a 39% damage magic instead of a 41% damage magic.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Deadly Horgrak: No, this isn’t a joke
    I'll believe it when I see it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Raids! Getcha Raids Here!
    I'm happy about Old Foes and Spectres returning. Old Foes will be a first for me, and Spectres will give me a chance at the spectral Lioness set.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Progress Report: Magic Preferences
    Still don't care about this in the slightest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Game Performance
    Haven't really noticed much different from the last few months to be honest, aside from a few sporadic outages. Glad to see you're keeping it in mind though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Premium Troop and Special General Releases
    I'm actually more curious about the special general somehow. Maybe I'm reading into it a little too much but they aren't usually announced at all.
    The premium troop sounds fine the way it's proposed here. Maybe a little on the cheap side, but with Dawniversary coming up in the not so distant future and the usual fat prem we get around that time I can understand the suggested price. That said I'd gladly buy Olivia right now for 100 pc.

  7. #27
    Town Guard Geela's Avatar
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    1) I like: that you'll be able to see who cast a given magic (I'm looking at you, people who cast Nela's Kiss on Whitepelts... and GID on everything)
    2) Much as it pains me, it IS true that any insane/bipolar troop should be named after System Call, I mean, Sycall in NG/Kasan

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Game Performance
    There was a recent thread in the forums raising concerns that game performance has recently slipped, resulting in some players experiencing a plethora of loading issues or other problems (loading spinners, etc).

    We haven’t received many reports on these issues (note I said ‘many’, we have received some) but we are looking into why it may be impacting some players and not others. We know that the changes we’re making to Magics I listed above will help on the backend though it may not resolve this problem for everyone.

    well, I just recently noticed the long time spinning wheel. many players complain about it in world or guild chat, but I haven't until couple of days ago. what happened? well, I switched from an old PC with XP installed (I know, it's a shame to win10. that was the moment for me when spinning wheel had more then 10-15 seconds. tbh, after 8-10 minutes, I had to refresh.

  9. #29
    Sister of Radiance eevee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowstar View Post
    two things.

    one the game *internally* doesn't rank magics as good or bad.... certainly not in any specific order. they could possibly rank them by average damage, but as you say there is many times you might want a magic for reason other than just raw damage.

    two, while in pure theory an over ride system would be the best, *IF* you could for certain be bumping off the "worst" (see point 1) magic each time. but it likely would require much much more development time and tweaking to make work as well has have much more potential for bugs.



    we need to consider what is really the objective with the magic casting controls. is it just to avoid the truly useless/trolling magics or is it to ensure perfect magics?

    personally would say it not the devs place to even be trying to ensure perfection of magics on raids as that has always been on the summoner to get the magics they want on it, which even you admit only takes a couple of minutes normally even as it is now.

    while it is in the devs interest to avoid players trolling intentionally or accidentally with bad magics, as that is disruptive to over all game play. keep in mind what seems to have pushed the devs into working on this in the first place was a player aggressively casting and recasting QM with what seemed like a script for how fast it was done on every single raid they could find, not someone having a 39% damage magic instead of a 41% damage magic.
    We actually already have an override system. It's called Guild raids. They just have to expand on it and make it more convenient, SUPPOSING the technical aspects allow it.

    If I had to pick a non-override system, I think I'd (like you) prefer blacklisting, as all the magic trolling is the bigger problem. And in order to cover up for raids like SoWW/1-hit farming, I'd like to have a mechanism, where only the specifed magic for a slot is allowed in that slot. This combo plus some summoner awareness will already improve things a lot imo.

  10. #30
    World Mender Plundarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geela View Post
    1) I like: that you'll be able to see who cast a given magic (I'm looking at you, people who cast Nela's Kiss on Whitepelts... and GID on everything)
    2) Much as it pains me, it IS true that any insane/bipolar troop should be named after System Call, I mean, Sycall in NG/Kasan
    Part one is the exact thing I do not care for.
    Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!


  11. #31
    Sargaash the Mighty equal Ahlyis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    We actually already have an override system. It's called Guild raids. They just have to expand on it and make it more convenient, SUPPOSING the technical aspects allow it.
    Guild raids don't have an override system. They have an option to allow anyone to remove any magic at any time, whether they're going to add a replacement or not.

    I don't think we really want the trolls to be able to pull all magics off of all public raids any time they feel like it. At least with the Guild raids, if it becomes a problem the leader can kick the offender if known/caught, or limit who can remove magics from guild raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    If I had to pick a non-override system, I think I'd (like you) prefer blacklisting, as all the magic trolling is the bigger problem.
    Blacklisting won't stop the intentional magic trolls. True, it will help with stopping the new players from casting LP, GID and others on raids because they simply don't know any better. But the actual trolls will just move to another magic that isn't blacklisted yet.

    To be at all effective against that, your Blacklist will have to include over 100 different magics.
    Azure Bonds on NAG has risen from the dead! We are now a level 10 guild with full guild shop access. Come join us!

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    Sister of Radiance Thalain's Avatar
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    I think slot override is the best way. A summoner sets desired magics for a raid (and this is saved for the same raid name for next time so it won't have to be redone all the time). Players can cast any magic they want at first, but once the slots are filled up, casting any of the wanted magics will remove the non-wanted ones, last cast first.

  13. #33
    Night Blade 'Beta Nu''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    As for your "What I don't want is anyone casting magics on my raid that I have not requested, Even if its their "Best Magic".", imo it's an unrational fear. With an override system it takes the SAME TIME to fill your raids with the magics you want.
    ?
    If it takes the same time using the override system then there is no need for it.
    I can just specify the Magics I want on my raid and have no others cast on it.

    Its not fear its sick of stupid people casting rubbish magics on raids just because its their Best one.
    Sadly its not Noobs its immortals+ Mostly.

    It might sound harsh but I am sorry if your best magic is rubbish don't cast any magics.
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.

    The Immortal Insurgi, 16th Drake Slayer, 12th Demigod. Insurgi's (AP, FS, OS, Max) Raid Damage Table

  14. #34
    Sister of Radiance eevee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlyis View Post
    Guild raids don't have an override system. They have an option to allow anyone to remove any magic at any time, whether they're going to add a replacement or not.

    I don't think we really want the trolls to be able to pull all magics off of all public raids any time they feel like it. At least with the Guild raids, if it becomes a problem the leader can kick the offender if known/caught, or limit who can remove magics from guild raids.


    Blacklisting won't stop the intentional magic trolls. True, it will help with stopping the new players from casting LP, GID and others on raids because they simply don't know any better. But the actual trolls will just move to another magic that isn't blacklisted yet.

    To be at all effective against that, your Blacklist will have to include over 100 different magics.
    yea that's why I said we need to improve on that system. I'm aware that the guild raid system is not exactly an "override" system although in 99% of the cases it plays out like one. You go into a guild raid, you see where you can remove a magic for a better one and you do it. An improved version would be the game determines whether the magic you want to apply is better than one in the slots and the game does it for you.

    About the blacklist thing, we have 137 magics total. I just think blacklisting feels like less work, as 99% of the bad magics can be cut with a list of maybe 10 entries. Personally I've never encountered anyone who had the PC to buy all those exotic magics and is casting Annus Mirabilis or Guilberts Banquet in all raids just to spite everyone. How realistic(ally appearing) is this scenario out of 100 bad magic cases?

    Of course I still prefer an override system. There are just 3 cases that we need to consider. A is override system. B is non-override system.

    1A. Perfect magics for Deadlies: A case with slight involvement of the summoner. He only needs to specify a couple of magics, the rest a filled up with the best general purpose ones. I think it's ok, this is only 1-2% of his summoned raids.

    1B. Perfect magics for Deadlies: Requires a bit more involvement of the summoner, as he needs to be present and gather the preferred magics. Things will be easier if he has a "specify" option just like A.

    2A. Good enough magics for 99% of the raids: This is something an override system can easily take care of without the attention of the summoner.

    2B. Good enough magics for 99% of the raids: Usually not a problem, but the summoner will need to check a bit in the beginning until a good enough state of magics has been reached. He needs to manually weed out troll magics, depending on whether his white/blacklisting is good enough.

    3A. Special magics for SoWW/other farm raids: Summoner needs to specify magics, but can then leave the raid alone.

    3B. Special magics for SoWW/other farm raids: Summoner has to make sure the specific magics will be applied. Things will be easier if he has a "specify" option just like A

    So in conclusion: A non-override system can do the job too, but with an override system, things are just more convenient for the summoner in 99% of all the cases, which represent the 2nd case. 1st and 3rd case would be about equal for both, but only if the non-override system has a "specify" funtion too.

  15. #35
    Night Blade 'Beta Nu''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    About the blacklist thing, we have 137 magics total. I just think blacklisting feels like less work, as 99% of the bad magics can be cut with a list of maybe 10 entries. Personally I've never encountered anyone who had the PC to buy all those exotic magics and is casting Annus Mirabilis or Guilberts Banquet in all raids just to spite everyone. How realistic(ally appearing) is this scenario out of 100 bad magic cases?
    .
    I have seen both those Magics Trolled....

    There is 120 of those magics I would black list.
    I think the problem is we have vastly different Raid Economics.

    90% of the raids I hit are deadlys (160 in my list at the moment)
    the rest are E-bals for Urn farms or the occasional AP farm which requires no magics
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.

    The Immortal Insurgi, 16th Drake Slayer, 12th Demigod. Insurgi's (AP, FS, OS, Max) Raid Damage Table

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    Sister of Radiance eevee's Avatar
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    Ok I think I'm done with thinking about this . I think your version of 10-20 whitelisted magics and an option to specify slots will cover 99.9% of the cases too. Important is that there is this "specify" option, because both override and non-override systems will be faulty without it.

  17. #37
    Night Blade 'Beta Nu''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eevee View Post
    Ok I think I'm done with thinking about this . I think your version of 10-20 whitelisted magics and an option to specify slots will cover 99.9% of the cases too. Important is that there is this "specify" option, because both override and non-override systems will be faulty without it.
    yah I agree we need to be able to specify magics.
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.

    The Immortal Insurgi, 16th Drake Slayer, 12th Demigod. Insurgi's (AP, FS, OS, Max) Raid Damage Table

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Beta Nu' View Post
    ... Sure there is a small global list of magics that you do not want on any of your raids but this list is Very small.

    Quicken Mind, Haste, Burning rain etc
    If you take all the raids that aren't above 35% ever, you'll remove 67 magics out of 120-130.
    If you start also removing the ones that don't get above 30%, 35%, or 40% for you personally, that'd be significantly more.

    Also, if you're just worried about Deadlies, there are definitely only a few options...Smite, BoM, DE, Ava, Wess, Shrink, GF, GG, Res, Web, Corr are pretty much the only ones strong enough (against an extant Deadly raid) to want on a Deadly. (and MoG if you're desperate, I guess)

    If nothing else, a whitelist is a good first step: The blocking of all trash-tier magics.

  19. #39
    Night Blade 'Beta Nu''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriffonSpade View Post
    If you take all the raids that aren't above 35% ever, you'll remove 67 magics out of 120-130.
    If you start also removing the ones that don't get above 30%, 35%, or 40% for you personally, that'd be significantly more.

    Also, if you're just worried about Deadlies, there are definitely only a few options...Smite, BoM, DE, Ava, Wess, Shrink, GF, GG, Res, Web, Corr are pretty much the only ones strong enough (against an extant Deadly raid) to want on a Deadly. (and MoG if you're desperate, I guess)

    If nothing else, a whitelist is a good first step: The blocking of all trash-tier magics.
    yah after looking at them I would black list 120 magics
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.

    The Immortal Insurgi, 16th Drake Slayer, 12th Demigod. Insurgi's (AP, FS, OS, Max) Raid Damage Table

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Currently our tech team is spending some additional time cleaning up the way Magics function on the backend.
    for some reasons it worries me, but maybe i should have more faith in you guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    As opposed to setting your preference for each individual slot, you would now set a master list of “allowed” magics.
    This allowed list would be universal for all of your raids and would be remembered session to session (so you wouldn’t need to reset it upon each login)
    i'm afraid that that one thing defeats the whole point of changes, making them potentially more harmful than beneficial - unless we'll be forced to make seriously wide list of acceptable magics (not 6 or so)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Magics would display the caster’s name on mouseover so you (or anyone) can see who has applied a Magic. This is functionality that existed in our sister game, Legacy of a Thousand Suns and is something we’ve considered bringing over for awhile.
    ok, i know, people keep asking for it, but someone explain me please, what good may it actually do? (i mean, maybe later, with more options implemented...)




    Quote Originally Posted by Ayah View Post
    That means if there is at least 1 non-mimic proc form General or Troop she will have 50% chance to deal 200% dmg from all Generals and Troops that proced during attack (At least that is how chance to mimic premiums acted in Lots: Boone, Panda, Batman)
    nothing in this description actually indicates that. it seems to imply that each proc will have separae 0,5 chance to be mimicked.
    but i'm afraid you may be right, as it's simply the logical move for reducing number of operations
    (i take 200 was a typo?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayah View Post
    Her ability won't copy mimic dmg from Aliyah, Cermarina, Claudia, Drogan Mar, Grimoire, Jack, Kitania1, Kraken, Bakku, Tussao, Utym, Zumara.

    1 Extra 10% damage if the raid timer is above 65% - this will activate Olivia's ability
    then it should say something like ,does not mimic/copy/work_on other mimics'.
    stucking, in this context, clearly means that effects work/exist together.
    but once again you're probably right (as no other option makes sense).

    but, why mentioning (1) specifically? how is it different from other procs?

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