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Thread: [May 4th, 2015] Freemiums

  1. #1
    Dawn of the Dragons Developer Mouse's Avatar
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    [May 4th, 2015] Freemiums

    Freemiums: where they come from and why
    Occasionally we want to release a General or a Troop that’s much more powerful in some manner than a normal item of that type. Sometimes we want to do this to make a particular raid or event feel special, or we feel a specific concept is really well suited for a more powerful type of character.

    Often times a “freemium” will have similar scalability to that of a paid premium, but with greater restrictions, this helps provide players with an item that’s powerful and feels exciting. We try to reserve these items for special occasions such as a World Raid or quest of some kind, but it’s something we could stand to do a little more often here and there.

    It’s a difficult balance between providing enough of these items versus doing it too often and making them no longer feel very unique. Often times when we discuss if it’s a necessary addition to a loot table or event we sit back and consider how this will impact the overall power curve of the game, what’s special about the item, does it fit the character it’s being created for, is the proc or ability something special and exciting? There’s a lot that goes into each freemium.

    The typical procedure for this kind of item is Guster and I will talk about a particular event, raid, quest, etc and decide if it needs something “extra”, if it does then we go over our options and if we settle on a freemium type item, then we start making the request to the art team and Stranger for art and lore.

    In the case of Logann the Drake-Spotter, we wanted to add something new to a particular campaign, and not long beforehand we had been discussing what the best way to introduce Logann’s character into the game might be. So in this case we first came to the conclusion that Logann should be some sort of freemium and then decided the campaign would be a suitable place for him. We also designed his proc and abilities entirely based on who his character is to make sure it was a good fit theme wise.

    Conclusion
    There’s more freemiums planned in the future, but what kind of things do you like to see with these items? What would you like to see more of? Let us know in a reply below!

    Until next time, adventurers!

    --------
    Please leave your feedback and questions here for possibly getting them answered by the team.
    ** NOTE: Not every question can or will be answered, but we will do our best to answer as many as possible. This will be a Monday, Wednesday, Friday digest of Questions and Answers.
    Last edited by Logann; 5th May 2015 at 17:38.

  2. #2
    Spell Slinger
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    How about a premium general like players spirit ...
    ANY/ANY/ANY
    100/100
    The longer you fight, the stronger you are:
    Gains 1 attack per amount of days you play. Gains 1 defence per 2 levels of a character.

    There is no victory without a strong spirit. Also there is no victory without a strong army but its anonther story ...

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    About freemiums in general: Its important to distinct between fremium and unique troops of powerful gerenals.
    Usually its hard to use unique troops when they dont fit in legion with cumulative premiums (non-melee frems + Dak f.e.). Especially when those troops become outdated.
    Freemiums as we know them (Dahrizon/Bernard/Mina III/Logann - thats all i guess) are great way, how to bring adventures with awesome rewards. I remember when i was hunting Dahrizon and all his boosts.
    That endless grinding was the pain in the dawn, but reward was totally worthy.
    I miss such a deep quest journey with good rewards :-)
    Na ArmorGames hledáme členy pro naší gildu CZ+SK !

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    Sargaash the Mighty equal miztickow's Avatar
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    Sargaash the Mighty equal miztickow's Avatar
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    I want a Sargaash3 freemium.

    edit: sargaash3 should probably be boosted by kez's crystals.
    Last edited by miztickow; 5th May 2015 at 04:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miztickow View Post
    Wow, didnt even know. Maybe because some of them are too weak for me (not thanks to prems, but thanks to stronger free gens).
    F.e. that frog ilusionist have his stacking power very limited (thanks to the fact that many of illusion items are for PCs). Same for Carla and Katrina (Katrina is a good troop, but wont become significantly stronger in the future).
    Last edited by veny; 5th May 2015 at 09:47.
    Na ArmorGames hledáme členy pro naší gildu CZ+SK !

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    Golden Garden Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by miztickow View Post
    There's a lot of YMMV with that list. I'd consider Dahrizon, Bernie and Logann to be freemiums. I don't consider Mina3 free, and the others are too weak for me to consider them freemium--they're about as much a freemium as Pan Piper is a premium (which is to say, not at all).

    Personally, I think freemiums could serve a useful niche in giving value to fodder. Freemium troops which grow based on familiars, Kez crystals and random pieces of gear would help in giving a purpose for players to collect fodder even if they don't have the premium that's fed by them.

    Another useful purpose that freemiums could serve is in providing a bit of balance in cases (well, case, mostly) where a premium turns out to be too powerful.

    I think Tuss was a mistake. To me, Tuss alone is a reason not to recommend this game to any new players, because I think the gap in power caused by not having his mirror proc is absurd, especially in campaigns, and I couldn't in good conscience recommend paying the amount you'd need to gamble for him just as an entry fee.

    I'd love to see a lengthy quest (perhaps requiring collecting quest fodder from z9-z13, as Dahrizon was about collecting quest items from z5-z8) that yields a general with a mount-mirror proc like Tussao, can't be used at the same time as Tuss, but gives a significant passive boost to Tuss' base stats (so that those with Tuss aren't left out). With his mount summoning proc and higher stats, this would leave Tuss still a superior premium, but it wouldn't make him the "Either pony up the cash for him or don't bother playing" that I consider him now.

    No, I don't expect to ever see this, but a guy can dream, can't he? (I should probably mention that this is from someone who has Tussao, and gambled to get him.)

  7. #7
    Night Blade
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    Freemiums based on different consumables, unspent pitchfork tokens, and guild rep/level would be nice additions.

    Maybe one based on adventure dropped gear (different pieces, possibly stacking up to 5 or 10 per piece) would make adventures a little more appealing as well. Possibly with a passive boost to adventurer stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miztickow View Post
    Hey, thanks for this. Like veny said - didnt even know this exists.

    And like Tesuji said - not necessarily agreeing with the list, haha ...
    E.g. Dont think the frog is a freemium, if his boosts mainly come from PC ... items.
    E.g. Dont think Katrina is a freemium too (the scalings too freaking stingy, perhaps. More like a unique troop as a result.)
    E.g. Dont ... feel that the Orc is a freemium. The siege woman has that feeling better, perhaps because she scales with Magic just like Clara. But still ... no.
    E.g. Mina3 is 100% a freemium, as is Logann. Just stuck behind a very high PC-wall (Trying saying Logann is free to the smaller guilds. Try it. )

    In fact, think freemiums have their links in red. Freemiums are always good, i guess. Ideally to introduce new devs to the players.

    But one has priority over others - one that uses the kez's crystals indeed. For this, miztickow has a near-perfect idea -

    Quote Originally Posted by miztickow View Post
    I want a Sargaash3 freemium.

    edit: sargaash3 should probably be boosted by kez's crystals.


    Also, will like to plug the idea of using Faustus the premium like a freemium - give him to the players after they had completed the tutorials, hopefully re-designed to be as player-friendly as Blizzard tutorials. Ending with an intro to the world of premiums, something like "There are other premiums in West Kruna, seek them out~!"

    (Think about it - Faustus is one who truly grows with the player, esp if the player reads the story. The more the player progresses the story through the zones, the more he grows. Another important character who actually had accompanied the player from start to ... well, finish. Ermm, before zone 16's plot anyway. )

    It's what most companies do to sell their products, giving one out to get people to hopefully buy ten, in due time. Think about it.
    Currently trying to share awareness on this - I realized that I dont really need anymore Premium Generals, esp with the Lockbox Premium nonsense~! And -1 to the AP Zone, AND Shop~! And the World Server~! And the 2.5T WR~!
    - Started around Xmas Eve '2010. Lena told me so. And, all the best to her, and Cleo. Never expect myself to outstay them here ...

  9. #9
    Golden Garden Monk
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    i would like to see more mina and dh type freemiums. ones that you have to quest for and collect the roght parts. in general i would prefer such to be troops as fremium gens are likely to be too weak to use (obviously bernie and dh are exceptions) also dh needs a boost, a proc boost and maybe a stat boost

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    Sister of Radiance
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    i didnt knew zenno was a freemium tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiken View Post
    i didnt knew zenno was a freemium tho.
    He really isn't and shouldn't be on that list anymore than say Henry the Vamp or Philippa the Grey.

    The only one who isn't there who should be is probably Kinarthin of the Ponderous Pastries.

  12. #12
    Sister of Radiance
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    I consider Mina3 an APmium, screw her basically :|
    Aside from that I hope we get MANY more freemiums:
    They should be a weaker version of premiums (e.g. doing half the mimic damage) and not stackable with the premium counterpart.
    This would help reduce the power gap (which is simply ridiculous) for people who own premiums and do not.
    Additionally this might actually make new players not simply quit after being told how awesome several premiums are and how they can obtain them without spending several hundred bucks.

  13. #13
    Sargaash the Mighty equal miztickow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODragon View Post
    He really isn't and shouldn't be on that list anymore than say Henry the Vamp or Philippa the Grey.

    The only one who isn't there who should be is probably Kinarthin of the Ponderous Pastries.
    Zenno is debatable because they continue to add illusion sets and update him accordingly.

    Kinarthin is absolutely not a freemium; his scaling is limited to what is in the legion and there are a HUGE amount of generals and troops in the game that use pretty much the same mechanic as him.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by miztickow View Post
    Zenno is debatable because they continue to add illusion sets and update him accordingly.

    Kinarthin is absolutely not a freemium; his scaling is limited to what is in the legion and there are a HUGE amount of generals and troops in the game that use pretty much the same mechanic as him.
    We can agree to disagree on Kinarthin (and generals like him). He does fit the Freemium pattern of potentially 'unlimited' growth, like all the others though which is why I consider him such.

    You comment that his scaling is limited but so are all Prem/Freems. They all stop at some point until new content is added and 5P are always going to powercreep another general into a legion at some point.

    Look at Drogan, he's 'stopped' for many people for a while (well, before the new rising coins). That doesn't make him less of a premium.

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    Sargaash the Mighty equal miztickow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODragon View Post
    We can agree to disagree on Kinarthin (and generals like him). He does fit the Freemium pattern of potentially 'unlimited' growth, like all the others though which is why I consider him such.

    You comment that his scaling is limited but so are all Prem/Freems. They all stop at some point until new content is added and 5P are always going to powercreep another general into a legion at some point.

    Look at Drogan, he's 'stopped' for many people for a while (well, before the new rising coins). That doesn't make him less of a premium.
    I did not say it's limited, I said it's "limited to what is in the legion."

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by miztickow View Post
    there are a HUGE amount of generals and troops in the game that use pretty much the same mechanic as him.
    Are any of them free?

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    Sister of Radiance Mace's Avatar
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    If you would not consider it a premium if it cost 100+ PC. Then you shouldn't consider it a freemium just because it is free. Just because something has endless scaling does not make it a premium/freemium imo. It has to have that limitless quality that all other premiums/freemiums have.

    That said I love freemiums and we need more of them. Not too many more, not even a lot more. They are just a little too rare. One now and then a little more common. Logann was fantastic, my favorite general in the game. Mina sadly was a bit disappointing in execution, however we could always get another Red Prince mini-zone to play off it later adding to the value of that AP-Sacrifice. Who knows maybe even the Red Prince himself next time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    It has to have that limitless quality that all other premiums/freemiums have.
    Tell that to Clara, Karla Mandrake, Katrina, Zenno the Illusionist, Logann when you have all Dragon mounts, Drogan when you have all current runes and so on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    If you would not consider it a premium if it cost 100+ PC. Then you shouldn't consider it a freemium just because it is free. Just because something has endless scaling does not make it a premium/freemium imo.
    Actually, that is why I include Kinarthin in this. For me, at 14 generals, he passes Dah, 15+ he passes Logann. He doesn't scale quickly but he does scale well.

    You can't farm fodder for him like some of the other Free/Prem; that is probably that most people are commenting on. That said, after a certain point, most things aren't farmable (magic, essences, etc).

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    Silver Arrow
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    For me, as a new player, only dahrizon exists. Maybe in a year or so i get mina ( mina is also a chance to get PC from AP farm and get a free primium = a real freemium )
    I love the idea of complicated long quests. Still doable quests ( not like mina ), with something at the end that is actually worth the slavery. It's not a freemium unless it's a free premium, and most freemiums are simply "meh" compared to new releases. I could farm 10 PC with gaining 100 levels and buy 1 single store general that is better than some old freemium

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