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Thread: Magic Procs v2

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    Golden Garden Monk
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    Magic Procs v2

    This is a continuation of work that feathin and others have done (old thread here). Feel free to leave comments or suggestions regarding formatting and data.

    Note: The numbers in the charts in this thread are approximations of average damage, for ease of use. More detailed numbers, including proc rates and damage percentages, are available in the spreadsheet:
    Click here for spreadsheet


    While I strive to be as accurate as possible, sample sizes are quite small and more testing is needed. There are instructions for testing in the second post. It can be as simple as posting a log of hits with a brief description.

    All magics proc for a percentage of your base damage, before accounting for the normal 0.88-1.12x variation. The numbers listed in the tables below are average damage %, or proc damage % times proc rate. This gives an estimate of how much added damage you'd expect from a magic in the long run. In the short run, there will be significant variation. If you'd like to see more details about observed ranges for damage and rates, including the values I assumed to make the calculations below, please look at the spreadsheet linked above.

    Single Magics (magic combos are in a separate table below)

    Magic Estimated Avg Dmg Crit Dmg1 Notes
    Blinding Light (base, vs Abyssal/Terror/Aquatic) 106.00% 2 separate proc chances: 70.00% base, +36.00% vs Aquatic
    Beach (maxed, all of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 70.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Blinding Light (base, vs Abyssal/Terror, non-Aquatic) 70.00%
    Bramblewire Trap (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen/Goblin) 63.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Quicksand Pit (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen/Ogre) 63.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Survivor (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen/Orc) 63.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Sap Energies (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen/Undead) 63.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Electrify (Abyssal/Insect) 62.50%
    Judgement (2 Armaments owned, vs Human/Demon) 60.50% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Beach (maxed, three of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 60.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Blinding Light (base, vs Abyssal, non-Terror/Aquatic) 60.00%
    Lucid Dreams (both magics, vs NMQ) 60.00% +15.00% for each of Sap Energies or Manifest Dread present
    Blinding Light (base, vs Terror/Aquatic, non-Abyssal) 56.00% 2 separate proc chances: 20.00% base, +36.00% vs Aquatic
    Manifest Dread (Troops owned, vs NMQ/Magical) 55.00% +16.5% vs Magical Creatures, +16.5% vs NMQ, +0.33% per Sleepless Soldier owned
    Raise Dead (Maxed vs Dragon/Demon) 55.00% +11% if Raise Dead is owned
    Judgement (2 Armaments owned, vs Human OR Demon) 52.25% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Crushing Pressure (Full magics, Aquatic, Terror) 50.60% When paired. +2.2% from each of Boil, Feeding Frenzy or Deep Freeze present.
    Bramblewire Trap (base, vs Nightmare Queen/Goblin) 50.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Quicksand Pit (base, vs Nightmare Queen/Ogre) 50.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Survivor (base, vs Nightmare Queen/Orc) 50.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Sap Energies (base, vs Nightmare Queen/Undead) 50.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Beach (maxed, two of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 50.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Beach (base, all of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 50.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Fatal Aim (Generals owned, vs Green Killers) 49.50% +4.50% per specified General owned, +9% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks)
    Inspire (maxed, Demon) 49.50% +2.75% if Inspire is owned; +5.5% if Sir Lenus is owned
    Sword of Light (maxed, Dragon) 48.95% +1.65% per Rising Dawn set item owned (including legion, general, and troop)
    Blinding Light (base, vs Aquatic non-Abyssal/Terror) 46.00% 2 separate proc chances: 10.00% base, +36.00% vs Aquatic
    Scorched Earth (Green Killers, with Power Leech) 46.00% +8.00% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks), +20.00% with Power Leech
    Dragon's Breath (maxed) 45.65% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.55% per Dragon mount or essence owned. Assuming 35 Mounts and 27 Essences.
    Cast Down (both Demon and Dragon) 45.00%
    Manticore Venom (maxed, Beast) 45.00% +6.00% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +1.50% per each of Lesser Poison, Poison, Greater Poison, and Assassin's Delight owned
    Lucid Dreams (1 Magic present, NMQ) 45.00% +15.00% for each of Sap Energies or Manifest Dread present
    Crushing Pressure (base, Aquatic, Terror) 44.00% Assuming unpaired. +2.2% from each of Boil, Feeding Frenzy or Deep Freeze present.
    Judgement (2 Armaments owned, non-Human/Demon) 44.00% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Melt (vs Winter AND Dragon) 44.00%
    Raise Dead (Owned vs Dragon OR Demon, or Unowned vs Dragon/Demon) 44.00% +11% if Raise Dead is owned
    Dessicate
    (Set + 3 Essences, vs Plant)
    43.20% +1.20% per Curious Cuirassier item owned, +1.80% per Plant Essence owned
    Electrify (Insect) 42.50%
    Intoxicate (Both sets owned, Festival) 42.40% +0.8% per unique Jovial Jester and Celebration item (ever) owned
    Boil (maxed, Aquatic) 42.00% +6.00% if all 5 Aquatic Pack generals are owned (probably 1.2% each)
    Bramblewire Trap (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen or Goblin) 41.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Quicksand Pit (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen or Ogre) 41.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Survivor (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen or Orc) 41.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Sap Energies (set owned, vs Nightmare Queen or Undead) 41.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Lightning Rod (Gens owned, Qwil) 41.25% +2.75% for each of Pasithea, Belleforest and Escha owned; +22% vs Qwiladrians
    Power Leech (Green Killers) 41.25%
    Inspire (base, Demon) 41.25% +2.75% if Inspire is owned; +5.5% if Sir Lenus is owned
    Levitate (maxed, Qwil) 41.25% +0.11% for each Qwiladrian Stormship owned (cap: 50); +0.11% for each Cloud Elemental owned (cap: 25)
    Fatal Aim (Generals owned, vs Orc, Ogre or Goblin) 40.50% +4.50% per specified General owned, +9% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks)
    Hibernate (maxed, vs Winter) 40.50% +4.50% if Hailstorm is owned, +4.50% if Hailstorm is present
    Beach (base, three of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 40.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Beach (maxed, one of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 40.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Hailstorm (maxed, vs Winter) 40.00% +2.5% for Snow Warrior set, +3.5% for Snow Warlord, +4.0% for Sleet Warlord, +5.0% for Snow Fox
    Consume (Maxed) 39.00% +6% if Burut the Hungry owned, +0.75% per of-Plenty Mount owned [5 of each]
    Judgement (base, vs Human/Demon) 38.50% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Shadowstep (maxed, Demon) 38.50% +1.65% per Shadow-Slip Assassin item owned (incl. gen/troop/legion)
    Manifest Dread (Troops owned, vs NMQ or Magical) 38.50% +16.5% vs Magical Creatures, +16.5% vs NMQ, +0.33% per Sleepless Soldier owned
    Crushing Pressure (base, non-Aquatic, Terror) 38.50% Assuming unpaired. +2.2% from each of Boil, Feeding Frenzy or Deep Freeze present.
    Purify (maxed, Demon) 37.50% +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire owned; +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire cast
    Remove Spirit (both Dragon and Undead) 37.50%
    Boil (base, Aquatic) 36.00% +6.00% if all 5 Aquatic Pack generals are owned (probably 1.2% each)
    Hibernate (Magic owned OR present, vs Winter) 36.00% +4.50% if Hailstorm is owned, +4.50% if Hailstorm is present
    Dehumanize (100 Magics, Human) 35.00% +0.10% per Magic owned
    Dragon's Breath (free) 34.65% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.55% per Dragon mount or essence owned. Assumes 30 dragon mounts, 27 dragon essences, and none of the magics.
    Blood Moon (maxed, Human) 34.10% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Lightning Rod (base, Qwil) 33.00% +2.75% for each of Pasithea, Belleforest and Escha owned; +22% vs Qwiladrians
    Fearless Advance (maxed) 30.80% 4% +19.80% if both generals are owned (probably 9.90% each)
    Feeding Frenzy (maxed, Aquatic) 33.25% +4.75% if Monster Fisherman is owned, +2.375% per Hook owned
    Judgement (1 Armament owned, non-Human/Demon) 33.00% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Levitate (base, Qwil) 33.00% +0.11% for each Qwiladrian Stormship owned (cap: 50); +0.11% for each Cloud Elemental owned (cap: 25)
    Raise Dead (Owned vs non-Dragon/Demon, or Unowned vs Dragon OR Demon) 33.00% +11% if Raise Dead is owned
    Deep Freeze (maxed, Aquatic) 32.90% +1.40% per FW general, +2.10% per relevant FW item
    Sword of Light (maxed, non-Dragon) 32.45% +1.65% per Rising Dawn set item owned (including legion, general, and troop)
    Fatal Aim (Generals owned, vs non Orc, Ogre or Goblin) 31.50% +4.50% per specified General owned, +9% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks)
    Hibernate (base, vs Winter) 31.50% +4.50% if Hailstorm is owned, +4.50% if Hailstorm is present
    Judgement (base, vs Human OR Demon) 30.25% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Beach (maxed, none of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 30.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Beach (base, two of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 30.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Mark of the Raven (maxed, Demon) 30.00% +10.00% for owning Shadowstep
    Manticore Venom (maxed, non-Beast) 30.00% +6.00% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +1.50% per each of Lesser Poison, Poison, Greater Poison, and Assassin's Delight owned
    Lucid Dreams (base, NMQ) 30.00% +15.00% for each of Sap Energies or Manifest Dread present
    Purify (base, Demon) 30.00% +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire owned; +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire cast
    Fey Flame (maxed, Human) 28.82% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.11% per Magical Being troop or general owned; +0.55% per Kindly Folk set item owned
    Blood Moon (no GM, 3 gens, Human) 28.60% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Intoxicate (base, Festival) 28.00% +0.8% per unique Jovial Jester and Celebration item (ever) owned
    Doorway (maxed, Magical Creature) 24.50%+ +0.50% per Veil-Walker item owned, Haste portion of the proc adds 2% plus .02*(avg damage of all magics on the raid)
    Sword of Light (base, Dragon) 27.50% +1.65% per Rising Dawn set item owned (including legion, general, and troop)
    Blood Moon (GM, no gens, Human) 27.50% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Electrify (Abyssal) 27.50%
    Qwil-Killer Fury (Qwiladrian) 27.30%
    Deep Freeze (no crafts, Aquatic) 27.30% +1.40% per FW general, +2.10% per relevant FW item
    Dessicate
    (Base, vs Plant)
    27.00% +1.20% per Curious Cuirassier item owned, +1.80% per Plant Essence owned
    Fatal Aim (base vs Orc, Ogre or Goblin) 27.00% +4.50% per specified General owned, +9% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks)
    Bramblewire Trap (base, vs Nightmare Queen or Goblin) 26.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Quicksand Pit (base, vs Nightmare Queen or Ogre) 26.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Survivor (base, vs Nightmare Queen or Orc) 26.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Sap Energies (base, vs Nightmare Queen or Undead) 26.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Intoxicate (Both sets owned, non-Festival) 26.40% +0.8% per unique Jovial Jester and Celebration item (ever) owned
    Cast Down (Demon) 26.25%
    Dismantle (current max, Construct) 26.18% +0.11% per Sculpted Crystal, +0.11% per 5 Harvested Crystals
    Scorched Earth (Green Killers) 26.00% +8.00% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks), +20.00% with Power Leech
    Rage of the Twilight (maxed, Demon) 25.30% 13 Oroc generals and 28 Oroc troops, +0.22% average damage per Oroc owned.
    Shadowstep (maxed, non-Demon) 25.30% +1.65% per Shadow-Slip Assassin item owned (incl. gen/troop/legion)
    Dehumanize (base, Human) 25.00% +0.10% per Magic owned
    Hailstorm (base, Winter) 25.00% +2.5% for Snow Warrior set, +3.5% for Snow Warlord, +4.0% for Sleet Warlord, +5.0% for Snow Fox
    Power Leech (one of Ogre, Orc, or Goblin) 24.75%
    Level 5000 Magic 24.00% Zoe's Eternal Slaughter, Suicide is Painless, Melody and Massacre
    Manticore Venom (free, Beast) 24.00% +6.00% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +1.50% per each of Lesser Poison, Poison, Greater Poison, and Assassin's Delight owned
    Consume (base, Gen owned) 24.00% +6% if Burut the Hungry owned, +0.75% per of-Plenty Mount owned [5 of each]
    Doorway (base, Magical Creature) 20.00%+ +0.50% per Veil-Walker item owned, Haste portion of the proc adds 2% plus .02*(avg damage of all magics on the raid)
    Feeding Frenzy (maxed, non-Aquatic) 23.75% +4.75% if Monster Fisherman is owned, +2.375% per Hook owned
    Blood Moon (maxed, non-Human) 23.10% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Invasive Growth (maxed, Beast) 22.80% +1.20% per unique Forest Sentinel item (ever) owned
    Hibernate (Magic owned AND active, non-Winter) 22.50% +4.50% if Hailstorm is owned, +4.50% if Hailstorm is present
    Leprechaun's Luck (active) 22.50% Raid timer below 10%
    Dessicate
    (Set + 3 Essences, vs non-Plant)
    22.20% +1.20% per Curious Cuirassier item owned, +1.80% per Plant Essence owned
    Blood Moon (base, Human) 22.00% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Melt (vs Winter OR Dragon) 22.00%
    Inspire (maxed, non-Demon) 22.00% +2.75% if Inspire is owned; +5.5% if Sir Lenus is owned
    Judgement (base, non-Human/Demon) 22.00% +11% if Cermarina's Blade owned, +11% if Sabirah's Ashes owned
    Manifest Dread (Troops owned, non-NMQ/Magical) 22.00% +16.5% vs Magical Creatures, +16.5% vs NMQ, +0.33% per Sleepless Soldier owned
    Raise Dead (base, unowned) 22.00% +11% if Raise Dead is owned
    Deep Freeze (base, Aquatic) 21.00% +1.40% per FW general, +2.10% per relevant FW item
    Manticore Venom (base, Beast) 21.00% +6.00% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +1.50% per each of Lesser Poison, Poison, Greater Poison, and Assassin's Delight owned
    Fey Flame (maxed, non-Human) 20.57% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.11% per Magical Being troop or general owned; +0.55% per Kindly Folk set item owned
    Level 2500 Magic 20.00% Vengeance of the Immortal, Eyes of the Walrus, Rhythm and Melody, Kaotik Dreams
    Beach (base, one of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 20.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Shadow Strike (active) 20.00% Raid health above 80%
    Battousai (active) 20.00% Raid health above 90%
    Blinding Light (base, vs Terror, non-Abyssal/Aquatic) 20.00%
    Brough's Trick (active) 20.00% Raid timer below 20%
    Dehumanize (100 Magics, non-Human) 20.00% +0.10% per Magic owned
    Mark of the Raven (maxed, non-Demon) 20.00% +10.00% for owning Shadowstep
    Mark of the Raven (base, Demon) 20.00% +10.00% for owning Shadowstep
    Hailstorm (maxed, non-Winter) 20.00% +2.5% for Snow Warrior set, +3.5% for Snow Warlord, +4.0% for Sleet Warlord, +5.0% for Snow Fox
    Bramblewire Trap (set owned, non-Goblin) 19.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Quicksand Pit (set owned, non-Ogre) 19.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Survivor (set owned, non-Orc) 19.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Sap Energies (set owned, non-Undead) 19.80% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Levitate (maxed, non-Qwil) 19.25% +0.11% for each Qwiladrian Stormship owned (cap: 50); +0.11% for each Cloud Elemental owned (cap: 25)
    Lightning Rod (Gens owned, non-Qwil) 19.25% +2.75% for each of Pasithea, Belleforest and Escha owned; +22% vs Qwiladrians
    Intoxicate (1 Set owned, non-Festival) 19.20% +0.8% per unique Jovial Jester and Celebration item (ever) owned
    Rage of the Twilight (free, Demon) 18.92% Assumes 3 Oroc generals and 9 Oroc troops, +0.22% average damage per Oroc owned. See note 2
    Deep Freeze (maxed, non-Aquatic) 18.90% +1.40% per FW general, +2.10% per relevant FW item
    Remove Spirit (Dragon xor Undead) 18.75%
    Cast Down (Dragon) 18.75%
    Shadowstep (base, Demon) 18.70% +1.65% per Shadow-Slip Assassin item owned (incl. gen/troop/legion)
    Consume (base, free) 18.00% +6% if Burut the Hungry owned, +0.75% per of-Plenty Mount owned [5 of each]
    Stanzas of Slaughter (maxed) 18.00% +0.45% per Warrior Poet item owned (incl. gen, troop, legion), +0.90% each for owning Harmony and Discord
    Exorcism (Demon) 18.00%
    Scorched Earth
    (base, one-of Orc, Ogre or Goblin)
    18.00% +8.00% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks), +20.00% with Power Leech
    Fatal Aim (base) 18.00% +4.50% per specified General owned, +9% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks)
    Hibernate (Magic owned OR Present, non-Winter) 18.00% +4.50% if Hailstorm is owned, +4.50% if Hailstorm is present
    Blood Moon (no GM, 3 gens, non-Human) 17.60% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Dessicate
    (Set-owned, vs non-Plant)
    16.80% +1.20% per Curious Cuirassier item owned, +1.80% per Plant Essence owned
    Feeding Frenzy (free, non-Aquatic) 16.63% Assumes gen and 3 Hooks (100b). +4.75% if Monster Fisherman is owned, +2.375% per Hook owned
    Dismantle (base, Construct) 16.50% +0.11% per Sculpted Crystal, +0.11% per 5 Harvested Crystals
    Blood Moon (GM, no gens, non-Human) 16.50% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Rage of the Twilight (base, Demon) 16.28% +0.22% average damage per Oroc owned
    Seven Unyielding (maxed) 16.00% All 7 Order of the Seven generals owned, +1.2% average damage each
    Rage of the Twilight (maxed, non-Demon) 14.30% 13 Oroc generals and 28 Oroc troops, +0.22% average damage per Oroc owned.
    Feeding Frenzy (base, Aquatic) 14.25% +4.75% if Monster Fisherman is owned, +2.375% per Hook owned
    Fearless Advance (base) 11.00% 4% +19.80% if both generals are owned (probably 9.90% each).
    Inspire (base, non-Demon) 13.75% +2.75% if Inspire is owned; +5.5% if Sir Lenus is owned
    Hibernate (base, non-Winter) 13.50% +4.50% if Hailstorm is owned, +4.50% if Hailstorm is present
    Stanzas of Slaughter (0 items, both magics owned) 13.30% +0.475% per Warrior Poet item owned (incl. gen, troop, legion), +0.95% each for owning Harmony and Discord
    Dismantle (current max, non-Construct) 13.31% +0.11% per Sculpted Crystal, +0.11% per 5 Harvested Crystals
    Deep Freeze (no crafts, non-Aquatic) 13.30% +1.40% per FW general, +2.10% per relevant FW item
    Fey Flame (free, Human) 12.65% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.11% per Magical Being troop or general owned; +0.55% per Kindly Folk set item owned
    Master of Monsters (maxed) 12.69% 255 (out of 259) mounts owned, +0.09% per 5 unique mounts owned
    Possession (Demon) 12.50%
    Purify (maxed, non-Demon) 12.50% +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire owned; +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire cast
    Greater Impending Doom 12.38%
    Intoxicate (base, non-Festival) 12.00% +0.8% per unique Jovial Jester and Celebration item (ever) owned
    Invasive Growth (base, Beast) 12.00% +1.20% per unique Forest Sentinel item (ever) owned
    Boil (max, non-Aquatic) 12.00% +6.00% if all 5 Aquatic Pack generals are owned (probably 1.2% each)
    Kyddin's Nexus (maxed) 11.90% 69 magics owned (some may have extra placeholder magics), +0.1% average damage per magic owned
    Stanzas of Slaughter (base) 11.40% +0.475% per Warrior Poet item owned (incl. gen, troop, legion), +0.95% each for owning Harmony and Discord
    Insanity Laughs 11.25%
    Sword of Light (base, non-Dragon) 11.00% +1.65% per Rising Dawn set item owned (including legion, general, and troop)
    Blood Moon (base, non-Human) 11.00% +2.20% per chest gen owned, +5.50% for Glimmering Moon owned
    Crushing Pressure (base, Aquatic, non-Terror) 11.00% Assuming unpaired. +2.2% from each of Boil, Feeding Frenzy or Deep Freeze present.
    Fey Flame (base, Human) 11.00% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.11% per Magical Being troop or general owned; +0.55% per Kindly Folk set item owned
    Levitate (base, non-Qwil) 11.00% +0.11% for each Qwiladrian Stormship owned (cap: 50); +0.11% for each Cloud Elemental owned (cap: 25)
    Lightning Rod (base, non-Qwil) 11.00% +2.75% for each of Pasithea, Belleforest and Escha owned; +22% vs Qwiladrians
    Begone, Fiends! (Demon) 10.50%
    Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre (active) 10.40% Raid health above 85%
    Beach (base, none of Abyssal/Aquatic/Terror/Insect) 10.00% +3.00% for Boost1, +4.00% for Boost2, +5.50% for Boost3, +7.50% for Boost4
    Blinding Light (base, non-Abyssal/Terror/Aquatic) 10.00%
    Dehumanize (base, non-Human) 10.00% +0.10% per Magic owned
    Mark of the Raven (base, non-Demon) 10.00% +10.00% for owning Shadowstep
    Scorched Earth
    (base, non-Orc, Ogre or Goblin)
    10.00% +8.00% vs any of Orc, Ogre or Goblin (stacks), +20.00% with Power Leech
    Master of Monsters (100 unique mounts) 9.90% +0.09% per 5 unique mounts owned
    Doorway (maxed, non-Magical Creature) 9.50% +0.50% per Veil-Walker item owned
    Master of Monsters (60 unique mounts) 9.06% +0.09% per 5 unique mounts owned
    Manticore Venom (free, non-Beast) 9.00% +6.00% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +1.50% per each of Lesser Poison, Poison, Greater Poison, and Assassin's Delight owned
    Dismantle (base, non-Construct) 8.25% +0.11% per Sculpted Crystal, +0.11% per 5 Harvested Crystals
    Power Leech (base) 8.25%
    Impending Doom 8.12%
    Master of Monsters (base) 8.10% +0.09% per 5 unique mounts owned
    Kyddin's Nexus (free) 8.00% 30 free magics (Immortal/IDS magic and Deep Freeze not counted), +0.1% average damage per magic owned
    Rage of the Twilight (free, non-Demon) 7.92% Assumes 3 Oroc generals and 9 Oroc troops, +0.22% average damage per Oroc owned. See note 2
    Hell's Knell (Demon) 7.88% Chance for double proc (0.5% overall, 5% conditional on single proc)
    Qwil-Killer Fury (non-Qwil) 7.80%
    Seven Unyielding (base) 7.60% +1.2% average damage for each Order of the Seven general owned
    Assassin's Delight 7.50%
    Electrify (base) 7.50%
    Violet Storm (maxed) 7.15% All 8 Violet Knight items owned, +0.275% average damage per unique Violet Knight item owned
    Deep Freeze (base, non-Aquatic) 7.00% +1.40% per FW general, +2.10% per relevant FW item
    Beastmaster (maxed) 7.00% 10000 mounts owned, +.05% average damage per 100 mounts owned, capped at 10000
    Guilbert's Banquet 6.96%
    Bramblewire Trap (base) 6.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Quicksand Pit (base) 6.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Survivor (base) 6.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Sap Energies (base) 6.60% +1.1% per Battle-Scarred set item owned (incl General, Legion and Troop)
    Lesser Impending Doom 6.22%
    Dessicate
    (base, non-Plant)
    6.00% +1.20% per Curious Cuirassier item owned, +1.80% per Plant Essence owned
    Manticore Venom (base, non-Beast) 6.00% +6.00% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +1.50% per each of Lesser Poison, Poison, Greater Poison, and Assassin's Delight owned
    Boil (base, non-Aquatic) 6.00% +6.00% if all 5 Aquatic Pack generals are owned (probably 1.2% each)
    Terracles' Blessing 5.76% When unpaired, same damage for dragon and non-dragon
    Crushing Pressure (base, non-Aquatic, non-Terror) 5.50% Assuming unpaired. +2.2% from each of Boil, Feeding Frenzy or Deep Freeze present.
    Manifest Dread (base, non-NMQ/Magical) 5.50% +16.5% vs Magical Creatures, +16.5% vs NMQ, +0.33% per Sleepless Soldier owned
    Shadowstep (base, non-Demon) 5.50% +1.65% per Shadow-Slip Assassin item owned (incl. gen/troop/legion)
    Rage of the Twilight (base, non-Demon) 5.28% +0.22% average damage per Oroc owned.
    Khan's Gift 5.20%
    Expose Weakness 0.00% 5%
    Kyddin's Nexus (base) 5.00% +0.1% average damage per magic owned
    Hailstorm (base, non-Winter) 5.00% +2.5% for Snow Warrior set, +3.5% for Snow Warlord, +4.0% for Sleet Warlord, +5.0% for Snow Fox
    Raging Blizzard 5.00% Also damages the player
    Doorway (base, non-Magical Creature) 5.00% +0.50% per Veil-Walker item owned
    Lyria's Swiftness 5.00% When unpaired, same damage for dragon and non-dragon
    Purify (base, non-Demon) 5.00% +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire owned; +1.25% per Mark of the Raven's Wing, Shadowstep and Inspire cast
    Violet Storm (base) 4.95% +0.275% average damage per unique Violet Knight item owned
    Feeding Frenzy (base, non-Aquatic) 4.75% +4.75% if Monster Fisherman is owned, +2.375% per Hook owned
    Annus Mirabilis 4.55%
    Melinda's Magekiller 4.50%
    Fey Flame (free, non-Human) 4.40% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.11% per Magical Being troop or general owned; +0.55% per Kindly Folk set item owned
    Fairy Fire 4.14%
    Haste 4.00%+ See note 5
    Sandstorm 3.90%
    Dragon's Breath (base) 3.30% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.55% per Dragon mount or essence owned
    Harmony 3.12%
    Discord 3.10%
    Devouring Darkness 3.00% Also heals the player
    Nela's Kiss 3.00%
    Burning Rain 3.00% Also damages the player
    Glimmering Moon 3.00%
    Fey Flame (base, non-Human) 2.75% +2.75% for each of Dragon's Breath, Manticore Venom, and Fey Flame owned; +0.11% per Magical Being troop or general owned; +0.55% per Kindly Folk set item owned
    Morituri Te Salutant 2.50% Also damages the player
    Vampiric Aura 2.25% Also heals the player
    Reflection 2.00%
    Beastmaster (base) 2.00% +0.05% average damage per 100 mounts owned, capped at 10000
    Greater Midas Touch 1.76%
    Greater Poison 1.13%
    Harpy's Curse 0.50% Also heals the player
    Poison 0.25%
    Infernal Bombardment 0.30% When unpaired, same damage for siege and non-siege
    Celestial Catapult 0.30% When unpaired, same damage for siege and non-siege
    Lesser Poison 0.08%
    Chryseis' Kiss 0.06% When unpaired, same damage for dragon and non-dragon
    Briseis' Blessing 0.06% When unpaired, same damage for dragon and non-dragon
    Cast Down (non-Dragon, non-Demon) 0.00%
    Invasive Growth (non-Beast) 0.00%
    Hell's Knell (non-Demon) 0.00%
    Begone, Fiends! (non-Demon) 0.00%
    Exorcism (non-Demon) 0.00%
    Possession (non-Demon) 0.00%
    Quicken Mind 0.00% Doubles experience gain (5% chance)
    Magic Torch 0.00% Does not use a magic slot
    Blazing Sun 0.00% Heals the player (+2 HP per proc, 10% rate)
    Remove Spirit (non-Dragon, non-Undead) 0.00%

    Notes:
    1. Crits do double the effect of any magic on the raid, but they do not increase damage done by mounts. So while it's tempting to think of Expose Weakness as 5% average damage + 0.05 times the sum of the average damage of all the other magic on the raid, it will contribute somewhat less than a magic with equal average damage would. Guaranteed criticals from Bladezz, Scourge of the Faithless, The Golden Lady, and similar sources will also decrease the average damage gain from vrit boosts. Mounts that proc on crits, such as Blue Manticore, increase the utility of crit boosts, but none of that type of mount is relevant at the moment (all far too weak). Accounting for all these factors, 1% of crit only ends up being worth somewhere in the nature of 0.4-0.7x the value of 1% of average damage. See the first post on page 4 for more info.

    2. There are four Oroc generals that are available for free: Zadarak, Nazula, Grakak, and Bakrax. There are 12 Oroc troops that were ever available for free: Sargaash the Mighty, Sargaash the Conqueror, Krinexa, Crystal Gazer, Quick Shard, Oroc Shaman, Oroc Besieger, Veteran Oroc Besieger, Securiator (from N/H Tisiphone), Securiator (from Batiatus' Elite Gladiators), Oroc Magma Walker, Oroc Wrecker, and Oroc Invader.
    3. The Order of the Seven generals are Sir Aaron the Blue, Sir Bohemond the Orange, Sar Velania the Red, Sar Meura the Indigo, Sir Colbaeus the Green, Sir Emeric the Yellow, and Sar Wenni the Violet.
    4. Beastmaster counts the total number of mounts you own, not the number of unique mounts.
    5. Haste can also be considered to add 0.04 times the average damage of every other magic active on the raid and average damage of gear procs (i.e. anything that's additive with magic). Crits and mount procs, on the other hand, will always multiply magic, so Haste gains no extra advantage from them.


    Magic Combos
    For combos, the idea is as follows:
    1) Decide on some average damage threshold that you want any magic on your raid to be above (say the worst magic you want is ID, so you might set it at 8.1%)
    2) Look at the per slot damage and see if it's high enough for the combo to be worth using
    3) Look at each individual magic in the combo. If that magic's base damage plus the added combo damage is lower than your threshold, you're better off using only the magic that clears the threshold and ignoring the combo. (For example, while SS+DD gives 12% per slot, you'd normally get 20% from SS alone. The 3%+1% added from DD and the combo boost aren't worthwhile.)

    While some magics get boosted by multiple magics, if no pair is worth using, no larger combination is worth using either. This works because each boost is independent; if this changes in the future, I'll have to rework this table. If one pair is worth using, the marginal gains from adding a third can be calculated by that magic's average damage plus the added combo damage from that magic.

    Magic 1 Magic 2 Magic 1 Avg Dmg Magic 2 Avg Dmg Added Combo Dmg Final (per slot) Notes
    Mark of the Raven Shadowstep 10.00 to 30.00% 5.50% to 38.50% 5.00% 10.25% to 36.75% +10.00% to Mark of the Raven for owning Shadowstep, +1.65% to Shadowstep per Shadow-slip Assassin item owned (incl. gen/troop/legion), +10.00% to Mark of the Raven and 12.00% to Shadowstep vs. Demons
    Leprechaun's Luck Brough's Trick 22.50% 20.00% 6.75% 24.63% Requires raid timer below 10%
    Battousai Shadow Strike 20.00% 20.00% 10.00% 25.00% Requires raid health above 90%
    Scorched Earth Power Leech 10.00 to 26.00% 8.25 to 41.25% 20.00% 19.13% to 43.63% Vs Everything compared to vs Green Killers
    Mad Marcia's Momentary Massacre Shadow Strike 10.40% 20.00% 3.60% 17.00% Requires raid health above 85%
    Possession Exorcism 12.50% 18.00% 1.00%* 15.75% *The 25% bonus damage to Possession procs currently only applies when Exorcism procs as well (damage dealt or taken). This is probably a bug; when it's fixed, the combo bonus should be 2.50%
    Possession Hell's Knell 12.50% 7.50% to 13.80% 2.50% 11.25% to 14.40% +6.30% on Hell's Knell if Begone, Fiends! is on the raid, split with Begone, Fiends!
    Devouring Darkness Shadow Strike 3.00% 22.00% 1.00% 13.00% Base damage requires raid health above 80%, chance to create a Shade
    Master of Monsters Beastmaster 8.10% to 12.60% 2.00% to 7.00% 7.20% 8.55% to 13.30% +0.09% to Master of Monsters per 5 unique mounts owned, +.05% to Beastmaster per 100 mounts owned (max 10000)
    Possession Begone, Fiends! 12.50% 10.50% to 16.80% 2.50% 12.75% to 15.90% +6.30% on Begone, Fiends! if Hell's Knell is on the raid, split with Hell's Knell
    Master of Monsters Khan's Gift 8.10% to 12.60% 5.20% to 6.50% 7.20% 10.25% to 13.15% +0.09% to Master of Monsters per 5 unique mounts owned, +1.3% to Khan's Gift if Beastmaster is on the raid
    Celestial Catapult Infernal Bombardment 0.30% 0.30% 24.00% 12.30% Only vs. sieges
    Begone, Fiends! Hell's Knell 10.50% 7.50% 6.30% 12.15% Cannot determine true combo proc rate, estimated 210% damage at a rate near 3%
    Briseis' Blessing Chryseis' Kiss 0.06% 0.06% 24.00% 12.06% Only vs. dragons
    Stanzas of Slaughter Discord 11.40% to 19.00% 3.72% 4.75% 10.19% to 13.74% +0.5% to Stanzas per Warrior Poet item owned, +1.0% to Stanzas for each of Harmony and Discord owned, +0.60% to Discord if Harmony is on the raid
    Stanzas of Slaughter Harmony 11.40% to 19.00% 3.00% 4.75% 9.83% to 13.33% +0.5% to Stanzas per Warrior Poet item owned, +1.0% to Stanzas for each of Harmony and Discord owned, +0.60% to Discord if Harmony is on the raid
    Lyria's Swiftness Terracles' Blessing 5.00% 5.00% 6.00% 8.00% Only vs. dragons
    Assassin's Delight Greater Poison 7.50% 1.13% 7.50% 8.07%
    Assassin's Delight Poison 7.50% 0.25% 7.50% 7.63%
    Assassin's Delight Lesser Poison 7.50% 0.08% 7.50% 7.54%
    Khan's Gift Beastmaster 5.20% 2.00% to 7.00% 1.30% 6.75% +0.05% average damage to Beastmaster per 100 mounts
    Melinda's Magekiller Annus Mirabilis 6.30% 4.55% 2.10% 6.48%
    Guilbert's Banquet Vampiric Aura 5.25% 2.40% 5.25% 6.45%
    Guilbert's Banquet Harpy's Curse 5.25% 0.55% 5.25% 5.53%
    Blazing Sun Glimmering Moon 0.00% 3.00% 6.00% 4.50%
    Glimmering Moon Fairy Fire 3.00% 4.60% 1.00% 4.30%
    Discord Harmony 3.76% 3.00% 1.10% 3.93%
    Nela's Kiss Greater Poison 3.00% 1.13% 3.00% 3.65%
    Nela's Kiss Poison 3.00% 0.25% 3.00% 3.24%
    Nela's Kiss Lesser Poison 3.00% 0.08% 3.00% 3.06%
    Blazing Sun Sandstorm 0.00% 3.75% 0.30% 2.03%


    Higher Order Combos
    Note: This section is under construction. While there are other magic combos of size greater than two, I'd rather not add more clutter to this post, especially since I'd need to add partial combos as well if I was trying to be complete (i.e. NK/LP/P, NK/LP/GP, NK/P/GP, and NK/LP/P/GP). For the moment, then, I choose to stick to combos where a magic appears in both the Magic 1 and Magic 2 slots at some point in the table above (FF/SS/BS/GM to come, rest assured, it's terrible).

    Khan's Gift = 6.5% (5.2% + 1.3% from Beastmaster)
    Beastmaster = 2.0% to 7.0% (+0.05% per 100 mounts owned)
    Master of Monsters = 22.5% to 27.0% (+0.09% per 5 different mounts owned; +7.2% each from Khan's Gift and Beastmaster)
    Average per-slot bonus = 10.33% to 13.50%

    Harmony = 3.5% (3.0% + 0.5% from Discord)
    Discord = 4.32% (3.72% + 0.6% from Harmony)
    Stanzas of Slaughter = 20.9% to 28.5% (+0.475% per Warrior Poet item owned; +0.95% each for owning Harmony and Discord; +4.75% each from Harmony and Discord)
    Average per-slot bonus = 9.57% to 12.11%

    Vs. Demons only
    Hell's Knell = 7.5%
    Begone, Fiends! = 10.5%
    Hell's Knell + Begone, Fiends! combo proc = 6.3%
    Possession = 17.5% (12.5% base + 2.5% from each of HK/BF)
    Average per-slot bonus = 13.93%
    Last edited by miztickow; 23rd April 2016 at 22:24.
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

  2. #2
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    Testing Magic

    A few things to note when testing magics:
    1) While stripping equipment and clearing legions makes log easier to read and reduces damage variation, making ranges clearer, it is not strictly necessary to strip to test. Use of special tools, such as this excel spreadsheet (link), will remove proc damage from hits if you select the option in the config tab.
    2) It is important that you don't simultaneously test magics that overlap with each other. That is, if the damage ranges for the magics are within 24% of each other, hits on certain portions of their ranges will be indistinguishable. Combinations of magic that overlap are also problematic, but if proc rates are low, this is rather more forgivable. Testing IL and KN simultaneously will pose no problems, though, for example.
    3) The problem in point 2 is sometimes inescapable, of course, if combos add a separate proc of less than 24% damage or if a magic does less than 24% damage itself. Some ideas for handling this are discussed below, though I admit to not having any particularly good answers here.

    With those things in mind, I'd be willing to accept the following types of data:
    1) Data parsed according to the guidelines below or using an acceptable alternative that you describe. This will include a min-max damage multiplier range, a procs/hits fraction, a list of active magics, and a list of any boosts to a magic you might own.
    2) A posted fooby log (link). Here, it is very important that you list all the active magics and any boosts for them that you own. I'll do the rest of the analysis for you.
    3) Just a procs/hits fraction and a magic list if you're confident that all procs are visible and easily differentiated.

    Of course I'm happy seeing any data for new magics to get an idea of how they work, but submitting data in one of the three formats above will be most helpful to me in terms of adding to the tables.

    Note on Damage and how it interacts with Magic, Crits, Mounts, and other Procs

    Damage = Base*(1 + Magic Multiplier) + Variation*Base, where Variation is the +/- 12% variation on every hit. Mounts and crits multiply Damage, other procs are added on after.

    Calculating average damage (magic proc is clearly visible)
    For the proc rate of magics with visible procs, you can simply count the number of procs and the number of hits.

    For damage, there are two alternatives, for which I strongly prefer the second:

    1) Don't do this. Calculate your base damage from the well-known formula (calc_base), then divide the max (max_magic) and min magic (min_magic) hits by the calculated value. Subtract 1.12 from the multiplier on the max magic hit to get a lower bound on the magic multiplier and subtract 0.88 from the multiplier on the min magic hit to get an upper bound. In summary, the bounds on the damage multiplier will range from (max_magic/calc_base) - 1.12 to (min_magic/calc_base) - 0.88.
    Due to the frequency with which bugs affecting damage have appeared and how difficult it can be to detect them (especially when they're a mix of display and actual bugs), I don't recommend this method.

    2) Do this instead. Calculate the upper and lower bounds on your base damage by dividing the lowest magic-less hit (base_low) by 0.88 and the highest magic-less hit (base_high) by 1.12. Divide the min observed magic hit (magic_low) by the lower bound on base damage and subtract 0.88 to get an upper bound on the magic multiplier, divide the max (magic_high) by the upper bound and subtract 1.12 to get a lower bound. In summary, the bounds on the damage multiplier will range from (1.12*magic_high/base_high) - 1.12 to (0.88*magic_low/base_low) - 0.88.

    Rambling thoughts on calculating average damage for magics with procs that overlap normal variation
    Ideally, you'd run two tests: one to establish bounds on base damage and one to establish bounds on magic hits. Dividing the max observed magic hit by the upper bound on base damage and subtracting 1.12 gives you a lower bound on the magic multiplier. There's no way (that I can think of) to establish a clear upper bound. Here looking at the average hit relative to the bounds of base damage could be instructive.

    Without separate tests, you could divide the max hit by the min hit and use some algebra. If the quotient is higher than 1.12/0.88, you know that the magic does not have a 100% rate and can calculate a lower bound for the magic multiplier by solving (1.12+x)/0.88 = max/min. If you somehow know the magic has a 100% rate (which means the quotient must be less than 1.12/0.88), solving (1.12+x)/(0.88+x) = max/min gives an upper bound. Otherwise, if the quotient is less than 1.12/0.88, you cannot infer anything from a single test.

    As for proc rates for non-visible procs? There's no great way to calculate those. You can get an upper bound estimate on the proc rate by multiplying the min hit by 1.12/0.88 (unless you have a better estimator for max magic-less damage, such as base*1.12 if you have a well-defined value for base damage), counting the number of hits above this value, then multiplying by 24 and dividing by the lower bound on damage, using the lower bound damage.

    For example, if you have 100 hits over the estimated magic-less max out of 1000 hits and the lower bound on damage is 4%, then you might estimate the upper bound on proc rate to be 60%. Basically, assuming lower bound damage, magic hits can vary from 92% of base to 116%. Only the range from 112% to 116% is clearly distinguishable, so assuming a uniform distribution for damage, you can assume the visible procs represent roughly 1/6th of all procs.

    Obviously there are multiple sources of error in this estimate, which is why I don't love it. If you want an idea of how large the variation is, there are notes on a simulation I ran in post #4. Working with averages can help for getting a reasonable estimate here, rather than (or in addition to) a very loose-fitting one-sided bound. Other than that, hope you're working with a magic that announces procs (attached healing or damage procs, usually), I suppose?

    I actually have never tested or looked at magics that overlap normal variation and don't have a 100% proc rate, so my musings here are on the theoretical side. I know feathin and some of the original contributors have done the work and there are hints about the methods in this thread's first post, so if there's something I'm missing and someone wants to clarify or correct me, I'd be glad to learn something.

    At any rate, luckily all magics that do overlap with normal variation so far are very clearly bad. While having good data on everything is nice, at least the limitations on testing don't have significant practical penalties right now.
    Last edited by Blues; 21st July 2015 at 07:18.
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

  3. #3
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    I'll have to go back and check, but those numbers for Celestial Catapult and Infernal Bombardment alone don't look right. I only have tests totaling a bit over 750 hits against Spectral Erebus for each magic, but from those tests, I got an average damage bonus of about 0.46% for Infernal Bombardment, and a measly 0.17% for Celestial Catapult. Both had about the same damage bonus per hit, but the proc rate for CC was 1/3 the rate for IB. Given the large number of hits, I can't see my results being that far off, but I'll try and go back and repeat the tests.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyreAB View Post
    I'll have to go back and check, but those numbers for Celestial Catapult and Infernal Bombardment alone don't look right.
    I did come across your posts for CC/IB in the old thread. The thing is, as I allude to in my rambling second post, extrapolating proc rate from the small sample of visible hits leads to a very high margin for error. Because CC and IB don't mention anything about proc rate changes in combo (unlike the magics that do change proc rates and say that they do), I assume that they don't, which should be correcting if there are no bugs. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe you were using the damage formula to calculate?

    To get a sense of the variation possible in smaller samples, I ran a simulation for CC/IB at my assumed rate/damage of 5% damage at a 6% rate, with 1000 tests of 1000 hits each. Over those thousand tests, the average damage bonus ranged from -0.37% to +1.04%, which ought to illustrate why I dislike using average damage (the average average damage was +0.307% over the 1000 tests and +0.2997 over a simulation of 100000 tests, so I'm confident that the function was coded correctly). I don't think your tests were done improperly, just the results you saw are less meaningful than they seem.

    EDIT: For the sake of completeness, running the 1000/1000 simulation with the same assumptions to count the number of hits greater than 1.12 times base and multiplying by 24/5 gives proc rate estimates from 1.44% to 12.48%, with a mean of 5.94%.
    Last edited by Blues; 19th April 2014 at 21:42.
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

  5. #5
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    Ha, the devs decided to welcome this thread with 3 new magics, all with annoyingly complicated procs, I see.

    Operating at a pure guess, but Master of Monsters might be 90% base + 80% for each of BM and KG + 1% per 5 unique mounts owned. 49/533 procs = ~10% rate

    Definitely need more tests, that was just from a test pegging it around 277% damage with both magics on and 137 unique mounts (h/t Oeffinger).

    EDIT: Up to 70/818 procs now, or closer to 9%. 117% damage with neither magic on and 137 unique mounts (h/t Oeffinger). My own tests have much looser ranges, but are in line with the estimates here.

    Entries based on these assumptions has been added to the tables above.
    Last edited by Blues; 19th April 2014 at 00:58.
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

  6. #6
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    http://www.fooby.de/dotd/log.php?id=535204f2c4161 Log from my friend, MoM/KG/BM
    In 1197 not crit hit. 110 hit above 3x average damage. About total 31% boost with 99 unique mount and 3k total mounts, good magic combine.

  7. #7
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    good info..
    But what mean these signs in magics...
    (maxed) (base) (free)... ?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abats View Post
    good info..
    But what mean these signs in magics...
    (maxed) (base) (free)... ?
    some magics do more damage if you have certain things, like Rage of twilight does more with more orocs. base would be if you have no orocs, maxed would be if you have all the orocs, and free would be if you had all the ones available for free players.

  9. #9
    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    Awesome, Blues! I like your format. And the spread sheet is a great asset and easy to scan for specifics (much better than my cumbersome details section). Thanks for taking this on!

    Minor typo: the comment about Haste on the spreadsheet is on Burning Rain's line
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    Quote Originally Posted by dementia_pandora View Post
    some magics do more damage if you have certain things, like Rage of twilight does more with more orocs. base would be if you have no orocs, maxed would be if you have all the orocs, and free would be if you had all the ones available for free players.
    thx. thats made all clear!

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    Quick note: Hell's Knell and Begone, Fiends! add about 25% damage together, on average. A more detailed analysis and entry into the tables will be delayed until they can be tested separately since it's too hard to tell which procs come from where and how they combine as is. Of course if someone figures something out, I'd be glad to work with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by uygnaixein View Post
    http://www.fooby.de/dotd/log.php?id=535204f2c4161 Log from my friend, MoM/KG/BM
    In 1197 not crit hit. 110 hit above 3x average damage. About total 31% boost with 99 unique mount and 3k total mounts, good magic combine.
    Great, thanks, this also fits perfectly with the 1% per 5 unique mounts hypothesis. One thing I'd like clarification on: is that 3k total mounts exactly or is it actually 2.7k? Beastmaster is doing 67% damage, so I just wanted to check on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by feathin View Post
    Minor typo: the comment about Haste on the spreadsheet is on Burning Rain's line
    Fixed! Thanks for the kind words and for your work in the old thread; this wouldn't be possible without all of it.
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

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    Thats cool if someone can support us with some numbers...
    ..So much work, testing and analysing...

    Why devs cant just post some helpfull information?
    Why cant they add these numbers in magic description itself?
    ...
    There been some suggestion, to add better profile statistics in main character window.
    Similar like in "Diablo 1/2/3" (just an example) the live statistic with all equiped items, magics, legions, etc... bonuses in one place.
    There must been more than just LSI, BSI, and so big, poorly displayed buffs window(there is nothing just icons).
    I hope to someday seen realy cool and delicate character statistic window, with text what provide us a lot of important info.

    Edited****

    There is picture how i imagine that...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And yes, then all researching be much more less... But watching from the bright side, there research can been made without any special techniques and can been possible to any player... There much easier have been tested new equips, sets and other stuff what been suported by window.
    Last edited by Abats; 19th April 2014 at 20:57. Reason: update

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    Golden Garden Monk feathin's Avatar
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    But if they did that, Abats, that'd take half the fun out of the game for people like Blues and I and all the other research-minded players.
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    While you're active on the forums feathin, I just wanted to say thanks for that Magics: Full Report thread. You have no idea how helpful that was to me as a new player, and you and LanderZ are the reasons I started testing things and having fun doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues View Post
    I did come across your posts for CC/IB in the old thread. The thing is, as I allude to in my rambling second post, extrapolating proc rate from the small sample of visible hits leads to a very high margin for error. Because CC and IB don't mention anything about proc rate changes in combo (unlike the magics that do change proc rates and say that they do), I assume that they don't, which should be correcting if there are no bugs. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe you were using the damage formula to calculate?
    What might be helpful then is if you post a recommended process for collecting and calculating magic procs. That way you get a standardized response for data to add to your table.

    I thought that the way that I did my testing was reasonable. Gather a large number of hits on a raid with a single magic on it while stripped. Compare the average damage for that large number of hits to what should be your average damage with no magic (which is your base raid damage by the formula). That gives the average damage increase due to the single magic. Compare your max hit for that large sample to your max hit by the damage formula, and that should give you the damage bonus for the magic. Divide damage bonus by avg damage increase, and that's proc rate.

    Given the testing I've done with proc rates in the past, including looking at damage variability, once you get up to 1000 samples, you're pretty spot on for damage variability, so those numbers ought to be reliable for determining magic procs as well. So my samples of >750 ought to have gotten me ballpark numbers. For me to be that far off from what you have means either there is something wrong with your numbers, or the RNG was broken when I gathered data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyreAB View Post
    What might be helpful then is if you post a recommended process for collecting and calculating magic procs. That way you get a standardized response for data to add to your table.
    That's what the second post is, in theory. Yes, it's rather unstructured and blocky at the moment, and I do need to go back to make the process spelled out there clearer.

    As for the rest of your post, yes, what you did was reasonable, though for the reasons I explained above, not ideal. I have to heartily disagree with your impression of the variability in your samples. I'm not sure if you didn't see the part of my post detailing the simulations I ran or didn't find that at all credible, but what it told me was that you could easily be that far off with that method without anything being broken or you do anything wrong.

    I would have provided the code for the simulation, but I ran it in Stata, which I imagine isn't particularly useful for most people who might want to look at it. I could rewrite the code if anyone wants; it's quite simple.

    EDIT: I should, of course, admit that part of the reason the range in the simulation is so large is because it ran so many times. Obviously a smaller number of tests would capture fewer extreme cases, but in any case, the point remains that there is a lot of variance.
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

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    as long as it isn't malboge or purposely obfuscated you should be able to read most code if you have any significant experience with any programming language(at least in my experience). I guess assembly can be difficult for some as well although unoptimized assembly generally isn't too bad. how bad is strata to read?

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    In terms of testing the new magics, I'd hold off on collecting data (or at least using the data collected from Echy) until after the WR and you can test the magics independently. The biggest issue revolves around the assumption that the procs are all the same damage bonus. There are three procs (all of which can double proc), one for each magic, plus one for the combo, and they are potentially all different damage bonuses. Determining which of the three procs is involved in any given hit is what is going to be a nightmare without being able to eliminate two of them from your equations. Even determining a single magic's procs is going to be difficult, because you have to determine two different proc rates from a single set (or sets) of data, the single proc rate and the double proc rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphl View Post
    how bad is strata to read?
    I'd agree that code is generally quite readable and that this should be too. My concern was that 1) Stata is an expensive and not commonly-owned program so no one could run the code and 2) Stata, being a statistical package, has a lot of built-in functions that are not easy to understand without context.

    In any case, code below (with the long-form function names and comments, which hopefully help):
    New magic thread: Magic Procs (more testing is always appreciated)

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    Some early numbers on the demon spells, need someone like Blues to verify
    http://notepad.cc/denafo85

    Total 3393
    Non Proc Proc1 Proc2 Proc3 Proc4 Proc5 Proc6
    Number 2736 327 183 127 12 7 1
    Low 275,438 512,854 747,555 933,554 1,169,627 1,437,757 1,671,189
    High 355,210 592,897 830,150 1,067,954 1,257,774 1,489,801 1,671,189
    Med-12% 278,806 482,893 698,813 866,336 1,059,561 1,282,922 1,470,646
    Med+12% 354,845 614,592 889,399 1,102,610 1,348,532 1,632,810 1,871,732
    Avg 316,694 550,560 792,137 986,023 1,207,872 1,461,316 1,671,189
    Med 316,826 548,743 794,106 984,473 1,204,047 1,457,866 1,671,189
    Chance
    11.95% 6.69% 4.64% 0.44% 0.26% 0.04%
    Dmg
    73.20% 150.64% 210.73% 280.03% 360.15% 427.48%
    Total Avg
    395,899 24.96%

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